Salsa > Salsa & sex

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by brujo, Dec 30, 2003.

  1. brujo

    brujo New Member

    Salsa is sexy. Salsa is sexy. Salsa is sexy. Salsa is sexy. Salsa is sexy.

    Everywhere you go, it seems that the mantra that salsa is like sex is repeated over and over again. Sex on the dancefloor. Sexy blah blah. Tso meet girls, go learn salsa and you'll find them melting over you. Just look at the salsa taglines : steamy / seduce me... bleh.

    True, you do hold your partner close to you. But you hold your partner closer in Bachata, Lambada and Merengue, where you are literally leading with your hips connected. Or tango, where the entire dance is a prolonged embrace. But salsa?

    I don't see it. Either that or a lot of dancers like sex to be a bunch of really fast, unenjoyable spins combined with messed-up shines and no connection. Is this something popularized by movies like Dance With Me? Or is it that by salsa, they mean latin dances? Is it the hips?

    I can see why the original casino moves were viewed as sexy by white people who danced tap, lindy hop and similar dances that are more playful. But the music of the 70s just doesn't lend itself to sexy. Can you imagine dancing sexily to songs with the lyrical content of Rage Against the Machine or Johnny Cash?
     
  2. peachexploration

    peachexploration New Member

    Pygmalion started a terrific thread called Yambus--Salsa and Sex and included a link that had this exerpt from it:

    .....It will help your dance expression and interpretation if you think of Mambo and the other Latin dances as being a sexual pantomime. The thought to hold, is that you are trying to seduce the lady but she is trying to refuse your advances. You push forward and she pushes you away. As you seem to have lost the battle, she titillates you with moves that suggest, you might get what you want but as in the real world, you probably won't get it! When you are dancing, look at your partner. Guys, you are the slave master, seduce her with your eyes. You want this girl! Girls, you're a slave girl, you can't deny the master but you can't demure to his wishes, you must resist him. Look him in the eye, defy him, make him accept your humanity, make him love you!.......

    The whole article is interesting but I include the excerpt to illustrate what the dance should be like when you see it. I think part of the problem is people probably are missing the true meaning of the dance. SalsaRhythms and BorikenSalsero can explain it better than I can. Movies like Dance With Me, though they are fun to watch, do not demonstrate Salsa or even Ballroom very well. There's alot more going on that spins, dips and even a couple of flips. :wink: For me, Salsa comes from the "passion within" but unfortunately, not everyone interprets it this way and alot of the time, you may be at the mercy of "their" interpretation. So this may be why you see mostly competition on the dancefloor as opposed to sensuality, passion, closeness, etc.
     
  3. youngsta

    youngsta Active Member

    You've missed out on a lot of good salsa then brujo. If all you've seen is a bunch of really fast, unenjoyable spins then you haven't truly danced it or witnessed anyone dancing from their soul. Merengue...there's nothing sexy about the music. Bachata...as much as I love dancing it, I don't believe the dance can be as expressive as salsa. But as always this is subject to everyones personal taste. To be honest the most beautiful, sexy latin dance I witnessed was a cha cha cha.
     
  4. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Each latin dance has it's own flavor that I enjoy savoring. For instance, I envision bachata as the latin country dance. Simpler then salsa, but suiting the country tradition.
     
  5. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    Me two cents, which usually turn to about 2 bucks in pennies.

    Well, sex isn't just the physical connection of two people but everything that encompasses the climax of physically coming together. Why isn't merengue sexy? Because the music isn't, the constant bang, bang, bang leads to boringness, so if a person feels that the same position, every time, with every partner is sexy, then, they’ve missed the point of physical pleasure. Merengue is a wam bam thank you ma’am. There is nothing sexy about a 2 minute courtship where all that matters is how fast the guy does his thing.

    Bachata is sexy because its music is sexy. Bachata is about one part of salsa; emotionally transmitting emotion through physical connection. However there is no foreplay involved in the dance, there is no climax, and there isn’t much variation. There is no seek and be sought. So, while bachata is sexy, I’m sure a woman would rather have a session of distant or close seduction followed by foreplay. Continued by teasing on both sides where it becomes irresistible to play any longer, and both come together where the male makes the lady totally his. Done so only because she has allowed him to. He will gently and strongly yet seductively guide her through everything she will allow him to do. In turn, with all he knows, he makes her feel like the only woman alive, to in due time culminate with a total climax like she has never before experienced. At which the time comes where the male takes his time to hold her and let her know that in this dance she is totally his and he totally hers. All of that while during the entire dance the sole purpose is to transmit the emotions each dancer has felt to one another.

    Tango, by its nature is a fight for supremacy. Now, I don’t really think a girl rather be fought with than seduced. Unless they are into masochism… Not to say that tango isn’t sexy because it is, nor that girls who like it are masochist because that is false. However, its nature doesn’t give it as much room to engulf just about every feeling a dancer comes up with as in salsa. There isn’t much room for bodily expression nor varied creativity. In salsa all feelings can be expressed by both dancers and with equal opportunity. Intensity varies as the music calls for, and the true pleasure of the hunt is the satisfaction that all of yourself went into attaining the ultimate price of a woman who has let her guard down and allow herself to be yours in a game where force isn’t needed to achieve total satisfaction.

    Now, today’s dancing by most dancers is anything but sexy. They have turned it into what you have described, and I sum up as a trap for egotistical males to do what they want to the lady, and the lady submissively allowing it because she thinks that that type of gymnastics display is what salsa is about. Today’s dancers don’t have a full understanding of what dancing salsa is meant to be. How can a person reflect the meaning of something they can’t understand?
     
  6. vey

    vey New Member

    Wow, is it getting HOT in here or is it just me? :lol:

    Boriken, you've hit a bull's eye with this one again !
     
  7. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    :bouncy: :banana: :bouncy:
     
  8. jenibelle

    jenibelle New Member

    Boriken...I love your posts. Do you think that it can depend on your partner whether a dance is sexy???

    There is one guy I know who dances both merengue and bachata with the most amazing sensuality and style. I dance with him to either of the dances and melt to the floor. That said, there are precious few men who I dance bachata/merengue with and truly connect with. If I have no attraction to the partner then I have a much weakened interest in dancing hip-to-hip with him and thus the 'sexiness' of the dance is completely lost. Does anyone feel the same way? --- I have to admit I have a bit of a crush on the (above) guy. :oops:

    Jeni
     
  9. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    I think that you have something there jenibelle! How can one be romatic to a stick? However, I don't think that there has to be an attraction or "romantic aspirations" per se. There is one follow whom I would dance anything to just because she really gets into the music and the partnership, and there is no attraction that I know off!! It doesn't even matter that she does a swingy salsa, or that's what she says, anyway!! Even if I don't feel like dancing, or my feet ache, I get up as I know that as I start grooving with her I'll forget it all! :)
     
  10. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    Thank you for the sweet comment Jeni.

    There is a lot of truth to that. Mainly when the dancer chooses how to dance while allowing different variables to influence that particular dance, such as partner/song/mood, which pretty much happens all the time. I believe that if there is an attraction to the person we tend to allow ourselves to emotionally charge a dance to a greater degree, as well as allow our bodies to behave in ways it normally wouldn’t. I've danced with people who don't dance sexy, while we can't achieve the same connection as I would with someone who gets into the music and dances sexy, I still do the best I can to achieve a point of total satisfaction as per that person’s abilities, and possible sexiness.

    The way I like to think about it is that regardless of who is in front of me, I do the best I can because I like to differentiate dancing with my partner and dancing to the music. Dancing to the music means that the music tells me how sexy or how much "love making", if any, is going to happen during a song. Dancing with my partner means she is the subject of my actions, as well as me being the subject of her actions. I basically have no choice but to let the music do what it wants with me regardless of my partner’s sensuality. I do, however, tone the sexiness down when I see that my partner is struggling to achieve sensuality in her dance. Nevertheless, my dancing to any one song can always be described as sexy. On the lady’s part, I truly believe that a dance should always feel sexy, but doesn’t come out that way because of the males who rather look at themselves in the mirror when dancing.

    It is human nature for all of us to allow different variables to influence a dance. So, yes, the person you dance with always has a say on how sexy a dance will end up being. If she isn’t willing to dance sexy, or isn’t able to dance sexy, there will be next to nothing I can do to make the dance sexy no matter how much I try. Kind of like dancing with and egotistical speed maniac, no matter how sexy you want to dance, his search for ego supremacy won’t let you.
     
  11. Vin

    Vin New Member

    I definitely will tone the sexiness up or down depending on how attracted I am to the person I am dancing with. Say what you want about the dance being all about the music, for me it is about the music but it is also about the person I am dancing with. Often times I do dance with women I am not attracted to and those times the dance is more about fun than trying to create a sexually charged atmosphere. I save the sexually charged atmosphere for when I am in seduction mode.
     
  12. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Tempo of music also plays a part. How seductive can you be at 100mph after all? (Well, at least when dancing at 100mph! :wink:) There's no time for sensuality... :cry:
     
  13. cowpaste

    cowpaste New Member

    Salsa? Sex? I wish I was good at at least one of them. :(
     
  14. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Question: Is it possible to be good at one and not the other? Well, presumably many people have sex who never dance salsa so, maybe more accurately, the question should be is it possible to be good at salsa and not... well, you all get the idea! :wink:
     
  15. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    And if you are good at one and get lots of it do you have enough energy for the other? After all both salsa and sex require skill, stamina...

    Cowpaste it's easier and safer to get good at salsa!! :) You get good at salsa you learn to be more sensual if you were not good at that before...and so on and so on...
     
  16. jenibelle

    jenibelle New Member

    Sagitta:
    <<how can one be romantic to a stick>>
    LOL! My expression was always "it's like dancing with a lamp post" :lol: :lol: :lol:

    You're totally right, though. If I only enjoyed dances with men I had romantic aspirations with, well I would have no fun at all. I know of a few like the woman you described...i'm not "interested" in that way but I love dancing with them for whatever reason, be it they have great rhythm, a great smile, whatever it may be.

    Maybe we could alter the theory a little bit. I find you have to at least "like" (not romantically) the person you're dancing with. If you think he's a sleaze, or he's dirty, or he's the guy you think dented your car, it's very difficult to let go and show passion/sexiness.

    Jeni
     
  17. jenibelle

    jenibelle New Member

    Boriken:
    <<<I believe that if there is an attraction to the person we tend to allow ourselves to emotionally charge a dance to a greater degree>>>

    Exactly! I couldn't have said it (much) better myself! (LOL, just kidding :lol: )
    But really, that is exactly what I experience when I go social dancing.

    Though I find that many newer dancers are less likely to dance "sexy" simply because they don't know how, or rather are still in the developing stages of their sexiness. For example, I mean it's difficult to be sexy when you're counting out loud and watching your feet. If you're relaxed, however, and enjoying the song, and moving your body with ease, it will be 100 x easier.

    It's even more difficult to be sexy when you are self-concious about every little movement your body makes (ie. Did that shimmy look good? am I rolling my hips right? does this outfit suit me or should I have worn the black top?) I'm tempted to say that more many people, looking sexy comes with practise. Luckily for me, I have a couple of people close enough to me that I can ask them for feedback. (ie. "Jeni that looks stupid" or "Wow Jeni that worked well" or "what the heck are you doing with your arm there? that's not sexy, that's silly!") Lol! :D I think you guys get the idea.

    Wow i've rambled on for a while. I hope what i've said makes a little bit of sense.

    Happy new year everyone!
    Jeni 8)
     
  18. vey

    vey New Member

    I absolutely agree, Jenibelle, you have to at least like a person you're dancing with as a human being, and a big turn off for me (in addition to "he's a sleaze, or he's dirty, or he's the guy you think dented your car" :) ) is when a person is abnoxious or/and "dancing with himself" and not with me, I find it difficult to dance sexy in this case
     
  19. peachexploration

    peachexploration New Member

    Whew! I need a glass of water.....:D :oops: :D Unfortunately, what BorikenSalsero has beautifully described gets messed up and lost in egos, arrogance, group cliques, rudeness, etc. :cry:
     
  20. danceguy

    danceguy New Member

    As a newcomer to Salsa, my dancing isn't very sensual (yet!), as there's a lot for me to work on, the biggest of which are the fears and limitations I put on myself. Sometimes, when the right song comes on, I can just let go and not worry too much about how I look. At least I'm up there giving it my best...

    Regarding sexuality and salsa, I really have no interest in dancing with people who are just there to show off and have no real connection to their partner. I do enjoy dancing with a Salsera who is very advanced...but if she is simply dancing "over" you and not respecting where you at...where is the sensuality in that? Likewise, people should be able to express themselves and dance at their level, but at the same time we should never trod on those who aren't up to the task. :oops:

    I recall asking several of my female friends once if they would have personal issues with a guy (relationship wise) if he had less sexual experience than they did. Surprisingly (or not surprisingly) enough, most of them said they would, and it was "expected" for any lover to have a certain level of ability in this matter.

    While one part of me thought "they do have a right to know what they want" - an even greater part of myself (my heart) said "I can't believe how callous some people can be."

    Personally, it really doesn't matter to me how experienced a woman is, have they had no partners or a hundred? In a serious romantic relationship, what I look for is - do we get along well, have mututal attraction, is there love to be shared? That's what's important to me...but other's milage may vary...

    Bringing this to dancing...I've had a lot of women tell me they'll finally get out to a club, only to have men "spin them a millon times" until they're dizzy and seem to only care for how good they look while doing so. Sure sounds a lot like how some people can describe their lovers as well. :?

    I danced a bit with a lady the other night that had never done Salsa before, and I had the best time ever dancing with her. I knew she was trying her best and making a lot of mistakes, but she had the most wonderful smile and energy around her that immediately had an effect of me. At one point, she just burst out laughing and I asked her "what's so funny?"

    With that same great smile she said "this is just so much fun!". I smiled in return and realized at that point, it was the best dance I have ever had with anyone...

    I'd rather dance with her type any day of the week.
     

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