Tango Argentino > Videos > Seeking Feedback on "Mexican" Tango

Discussion in 'Videos' started by Manfred Lopez, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. Manfred Lopez

    Manfred Lopez New Member

    I thought it was against forum policies to self promote websites. Besides, I didn't come here for that. We've had a tremendous amount of traffic in these 4 days thanks to Facebook and people sharing the videos (for example, the one involving Zombies has been seen in more than 30 countries so far).

    I posted the Tango one here because I was curious to find out people's reaction to what we did (people "in-the-know" supposedly). And I got the unfiltered opinions from a couple of you (thanks!). The website was created indeed to promote dancers and dancing in general. It's a non-profit project. Here in Mexico dance doesn't receive enough recognition and many dancers work in obscurity because of lack of resources or forums like dance-forums (but in Spanish).
     
  2. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    Since AT is specific kind of activity it's no wonder that it's a small world. ;)
     
  3. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    That's what they claim to be on their Facebook pages. Instructors, performers, 2011 national stage champions.

    Your home state is not exactly a tango desert, there are quite a few people there, living and visiting, who are into tango. And this couple does travel.

    If they told you that they learned everything without any guidance or instruction whatsoever, it is simply not true. :)

    I did not search your name. The couple in the video looked familiar, and turned out, for a reason. We have some friends and acquaintances in common.

    I am fluent in Spanish btw.
     
  4. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    @Manfred Lopez

    I found interesting text on Froyamel Corro

    "Dedicado al Tango desde hace varios años. Ha aprendido con importantes maestros del ámbito nacional e internacional. Ofrece shows, clases, seminarios."


    which Google translated to:
    "Dedicated to Tango for several years. He has learned important teachers nationally and internationally. It offers shows, classes, seminars."

    We are not stupid.
     
  5. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    So when I asked what the video was meant for, perhaps you could reply that it was for an artistic project rather than "nothing, it was just an essay, to look at themselves"? granted, it's no big deal, but still.
     
  6. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    How come?? we are supposed to be stupid. We are gringos. :)
     
    Mladenac likes this.
  7. Manfred Lopez

    Manfred Lopez New Member

    I am american as well. Dual citizen. So don't start with that one. I'm in no mood for racist people as well. Dealing with online Bullies is enough. I don't know if you all noticed but this thread has been way too hostile from the beginning. I don't understand what the big deal is. I shared a video and wanted opinions. And I STILL DON'T KNOW WHY you keep saying they are national champions. I just checked their Facebook page and don't see it anywhere. Are you looking at the same people? Care to provide a link? And if you know them, why not identify yourself and say hi?
     
  8. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member


    Luckily we are enough educated and intelligent to recognize manipulators. :D:cool:
     
    Lilly_of_the_valley likes this.
  9. Manfred Lopez

    Manfred Lopez New Member

    APOLOGY

    I have to sincerely appolgize. I just checked Froyamel's resume and found this:

    2o Lugar en Campeonato Nacional de Tango de Escenario
    Federación Mexicana de Baile y Danza Deportiva
    México DF
    3er Lugar en Campeonato Nacional de Tango de Salón
    Federación Mexicana de Baile y Danza Deportiva
    México DF
    2o Lugar Concurso de Baile Victory la Excelencia
    Victory La Excelencia San Luis Potosi
    San Luis Potosí, San Luis Potosí
    1er Lugar en Campeonato Nacional de Tango de Escenario
    Federación Mexicana de Baile y Danza Deportiva
    Cd. Netzahualcoyotl, Edo. De México
    2o Lugar en el 1er Concurso de Bachata en Morelia
    Club Konkolo
    Morelia, Mich

    Which means he has won a few championships. I honestly had no idea the entire time I worked with them. But this only goes to show that they ARE really humble. I am shocked to find this out. So, again, I apologize for insisting they were not more advanced. I honestly had no idea. I'll have to congratulate them the next time I see them. :)

    But I think that this still doesn't excuse the rudeness I have witnessed here. Just saying. And it's still not on their facebook page as far as I checked. Can we PLEASE stop fighting and talk about how to improve these videos :)
     
  10. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    @Manfred

    Specify rudeness, you may quote the posts.

    Your behaviour is very impolite.
     
    Lilly_of_the_valley likes this.
  11. Manfred Lopez

    Manfred Lopez New Member

    I already apologized. I do so again. I do ask that you accept it and leave it at that. I do feel at a disadvantage that my real name is being used here and yet I don't know who you are. This is not a fair exchange. And for what its worth... To me rudeness is not acknowledging when some has apologized and yet decides go on to say my behavior is impolite, when the aforementioned apology supposedly addresses the reason for my misunderstanding.
     
    bordertangoman likes this.
  12. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    I am out of this topic and will not provide nor my time nor energy.
     
    Lilly_of_the_valley likes this.
  13. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    This thread brings joy every time I read it. I can't help but get a good laugh!:rofl:

    Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to have won any kind of escenario competition with that kind of performance in the video. I hope their bachata is better.

    Also, I'm not poking fun of you, Manfred, just the dancers. Ironic twists are fun!
     
    Mladenac likes this.
  14. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Manfred, on your website you have, still under construction, a space reserved for dancers' resumes. Were you sincerely prepared to put next to the names of Froyamel and Daniele "amateurs, figured out everything on their own"? Were you the one who filmed, edited their interviews?

    Been around for a while, we all know that winning a tango contest often does not mean much, and that some dancers embellish their credentials in order to get more business. As you said, no big deal. However, there was no need to say stuff that completely contradict the info one can find on the internet within minutes , and yes, it felt like a manipulation from your part.
    What you did here (perhaps, with the best intentions to help these guys) was not cool.
     
    Mladenac likes this.
  15. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Correction: the lady's name is Denise, not Daniele.
     
  16. Lui

    Lui Active Member

    In general I liked the performance and I’m convinced that there is a potential to entertain the general public. Here are some ideas that you might find helpful for further development.

    Camera work.
    • When panning try to keep the rim of the floor horizontal and therefore in alignment with the orientation of the video. A Dolly would be even greater.
    • While reducing the visibility some kind of shadows and decoration (tables, chairs, plants …) will enhance the atmosphere. To my taste the dancers look a little bit like bugs pinned to an exhibition board.
    • Without any apparent artistic reason cutting of heads and feed is irritating. If the room is too narrow for a proper perspective, dancing, and shooting along the diagonal might help.
    • If you have the possibility to cut the material, some cuts to the faces, eyes, acting hands, used objects during the acting part will make the video more interesting. Dancers will enjoy to see the whole body during dancing. Lay people like to see their faces and expressions as well. Your choice. When filming only the faces, it’s a good idea to take the expression during a separate early shoot, when the make up and the dancers are fresh.
    Acting
    • There was too little action in too much time, to keep it interesting for me. As 4 minutes are rather long for a tango, you might shorten the music.
    • I didn’t get the motivation behind the character’s action, and therefore my attention wandered away. Maybe I’m impatient, but then maybe I’m not alone in this. Inventing some background information: what are that for people, why are they there, what do the feel about each situation, what do they want to achieve etc, might help your dancers to act out a more rounded stage character. If they have some kind of inner monolog to think along, it will keep them on track.
    • In general I think it’s a good idea to introduce some very likable stage characters in the first 20 seconds so it’s not unnecessary hard to win over the crowd in the remaining time. Looking grumpy all the time without any good reason makes it hard to like the lady character. This makes it hard to finally clap for her as well.
     
  17. Manfred Lopez

    Manfred Lopez New Member


    These are very good suggestions. I really appreciate them. I had already thought about the room-size issue. That was very limiting. I also agree that the length of this video was a bit much. When I started the project I told everyone that maximum the pieces should last 3 minutes. But some of them grew longer. Another limitation was that we only had two hours with each one to film them.
     
  18. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Just wanted to drop in here and note that while I have seen no outright violations of the Guidelines, I agree that some of the comments have been, shall we say, fairly brutal.

    Maybe keep in mind that the Guidelines say that we are supposed to be

    "a friendly and supportive environment."
     
    Manfred Lopez likes this.
  19. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    well said Manfred, oh and my real name is Guy Williams. I dance in the UK.
     
    Mladenac likes this.
  20. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Is it considered rude to ignore questions?
     
    Mladenac likes this.

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