General Dance Discussion > So you think you can dance

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by Albanaich, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    I just posted this over on the Swing thread - I'm fascinated that no one seems to want to answer the question.

    One of these dance video's is significantly and obviously different from the others. Well its obvious to me.

    Can anyone tell which one is different and what makes it different

    Discofox, East Coast Swing and Modern Jive
  2. wonderwoman

    wonderwoman Well-Known Member

    Don't understand what you're asking. They're all different from one another. The last one sounds more like a cha cha?
  3. wonderwoman

    wonderwoman Well-Known Member

    Why did you make another thread?
  4. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Well they are not. 3 are the same and one is markedly, obviously different.

    To me its obvious - but not apparently to anyone else. I'm shocked :-(
  5. atk

    atk Active Member

    Albanaich, I think I'm going to reiterate wonderwoman's comment: all three seem different. If I had to categorize, one looks like a style of swing that I haven't seen before, one looks like hustle, one looks like east coast swing, and one looks like west coast swing. Since the names on the pages give away which three are discofox and modernjive, and I'm not familiar with those dances, I can't begin to comment on expected technique. Based on previous comments I've seen by you, I'm guessing that you think discofox and modernjive are the ones that are "the same". Could you narrow down your question, and the point of this thread? I get the distinct impression that you're trying to quiz the rest of DF using your knowledge as the scale. I must be missing it, but I just don't see what other conversation you're trying to start.
  6. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    You've got three, slightly different forms of dance related to East Coast Swing, (you might consider 'Discofox' the European implementation of ECS and Modern Jive the British implementation).

    They are all similar, though implemented slightly differently. It's not the dances that are different, its the dancers.

    One pair of dancers are doing something the other three are not. It should be, or rather I expected it to be, completely obvious - apparently its not.

    In the original post I took it for granted that dancers would see what was strange, what I took for granted clearly isn't so obvious.

    Maybe this video makes it more obvious
  7. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    the 1st vid ("discofox"...never heard of that) looks like a rather graceless hustle.
    the 2nd vid (ECS) looks like a slow jive to me and is not like the others.
    the 3rd vid (another discofox) is like the first, just better executed and with fancier lifts. although i don't care for the style.
    the 4th vid (Ceroc...never saw that style before) is different from the others, but closer to the discofox than ECS example, IMO. the "lifts" and tricks look rather awkward and strange to my eyes.

    don't know what you're point is in comparing these vids... would love to hear it. spit it out. :)
  8. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    This is absolutely fascinating. . . . . . .

    It's quite obvious which is the odd one out - and it has nothing to do with the style of the dance. . . . .

    You can't see it?

    Someone has got to get it!
  9. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    Well, it depends what you're criteria is. Is it the dance form itself, the showmanship/lifts, the quality of execution, the connection between the partners, the musicality... what are you evaluating these vids for?
  10. etp777

    etp777 Active Member

    fair question.
  11. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Well the last one should stand out absolutely from the others - why does it stand out, what makes it stand out. . . . .

    3 out of the 5 completely lack something - what is it?
  12. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Ok. . . . I'll let you off the hook.

    3 of them are not dancing, they are doing 'synchronised movements to a beat', if you used a compressor or a metronmome for the beat - you would get the same dance. The music played is unimportant to their 'dancing' :-(

    They dance through the breaks, are out of alignment with the musical phrasing, and unaware of the emphasis points in the music.

    What they are doing has no contact with the music being played, other than they are in time with the beat.

    Technically though, some of them are very accomplished.

    It's astonishing that people can be allowed to get that level (and they are all competing in significant competions) without any musicality whatsoever.

    The idea I thought was that in dance you 'danced to the music' when what you do bears no relationship to the music, and could be done with a simple beat and nothing else - are you dancing?

    The whole fact that I am (against my wishes) having to explain that, I find rather sad.
  13. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    You seem to have this one single litmus test for "who's a good dancer." Every so often you break it out again, along with video clips of dancers who don't measure up to your standard.

    Er, why?
  14. etp777

    etp777 Active Member

    Because only ceroc dancers have musicality. :)
  15. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Gee, maybe it's too bad I can't do YouTube unless I go to the library, and I'm doing exactly that in about an hour. Wonder if I would have gotten it, since I can't even watch people who aren't at least in time to the music, but can at least sort of tolerate people who don't do the the other things you mention - sort of.

    Well, that's one of the reasons I don't put much stock in competition as credential.
    It's kind of like when you wonder why so and so is in that position somewhere. Well, when you have to fill a position, you can only pick someone who has applied for the job. Even if you don't see a really good candidate, you still have to pick someone.

    Then again, I see people teaching all of the time who don't teach ANYTHING about musicality or even being in time with the music.

    Some one at the Country Western place I go to theorizes that "back in the day" music was taught routinely here in the States. It hasn't been for years, and even decades. Wonder if we are worse as dancers in general. Laure' Haile complained in the 80s that people used to study dance seriously, and that they didn't anymore.
    Well, I lived through the 60s and I remember what kind of dancing "Do your own thing" most young people did in public.
  16. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Well no, the Ceroc dancers are chosen as probably the worst of the examples. . . . . if you can't see that. . . .

    Steve. . . .I absolutely agree with you. That was the point of my post.

    Now I've declared my position I expect lots of posts, before, there was nothing, because people could not see what was wrong and did not want to admit it.

    Which was entirely the point I wanted to make.

    If what you are doing has no contact with the music being played - then you are not a dancer, however athleticaly talented you might be.

    Not a difficult one to understand. . . .
  17. atk

    atk Active Member

    Albanaich, you do understand that different people have different goals, different dances have different requirements/techniques, and different organizations use different yard sticks, right?
  18. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Not for the first time. But, er, "why?"

    If you were to ask me whether I agree that everyone should be sure they pass your one litmus test before dancing anywhere that might end up where you might find it on youtube, then my answer would be "no".

    If you were to ask me whether I agree that your one litmus test is the only differentiator of "good" and "bad" partner dancing that matters, my answer would be "no" there, too.
  19. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    i'll check it out. i purposefully *not* evaluating the dancers, but was looking at the dances.
  20. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I think dancing in time to the music should be a starting point for dancers.
    Stopping there and, for instance, continuing to ignore breaks in the music rather than using them somehow, doesn't seem like a satisfactory end point to me. But, of course that's just me. But, as I pointed out already, Laure' Haile for one noted the difference in the general attitude towards dance in the 80s. ie most people didn't take it seriously anymore.
    Yeah, people have different goals, but...

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