General Dance Discussion > So you think you can dance

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by Albanaich, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    Hi DancingMommy - I respectfully disagree with these statements. I believe quite the opposite -- Dancers are made, not born, but won't explore further as I think I would be going off-topic.
     
  2. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Take the rhythm out and ballroom cha cha and waltz and they look pretty much the same. . . . .that's the achievement of ballroom, they manage to make very different dances take on the same style.

    It's all about technique

    Check it out.

    Three non ballroom dances

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqbuExtbfVQ&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj12nUQKrBE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uBwm3FjdP0

    The three ballroom versions

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw9JmWplL68

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95lUV-CGFIk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvQvYJTra8
     
  3. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    I certainly agree about there being a difference between musicality that one can feel and the musicality that one can demonstrate. My thought was stemming around the demonstration. I agree about control. And I guess I don't know enough about different dance styles, myself, to say, yet, that I agree with everything in the last two paragraphs, but I understand, I like, your thought.
     
  4. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    Cani - if you'd like to explore that concept in a new thread, it might be worthwhile...
     
  5. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    This concept of constraints as it relates to various dance forms is interesting. I wish I knew more about WCS and AT technique to be able to articulate the differences in musicality I see (and where I have difficulty seeing musicality) in some of the videos you've included of ballroom, WCS and AT. I think this thought is going to have to percolate for a couple of years until I have more experiences to draw upon (even within the one style I currently study) before I can explore further.
     
  6. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    Respectfully, there is a WORLD of difference between ChaChaCha and Waltz! How anyone could confuse the two is beyond my comprehension. If you'd said "foxtrot and waltz", I'd have bought your assertion because those two can have a bit of crossover that makes it difficult...

    HOWEVER! If you actually watch the dances, it's evident based on the footwork that a ChaChaCha is different from a Rumba is different from a Jive is different from a Paso Doble etc etc etc. EVEN if you took away the music, it would be evident. What makes each dance unique - aside from the music each are danced to - is the actual steps and characterization.

    It seems to me - based on your posts - that your experience with ballroom is incredibly limited.
     
  7. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    and that pretty much sums up how much weight your "opinion" on ballroom carries :)...


    And here is the heart of this thread. Go off and do as you choose... but forcing your views and choices on others by telling them are "wrong" when they merely don't fit "Your" interpretation of right and wrong is obviously not getting you anywhere.
     
  8. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Moderator

    I think it can be hard to draw a line on originality/authenticity. From what I've read, it seems that the various Argentine tango styles danced today may differ a bit from yesterday.
    I'm not quite sure where you came to that. I don't think you really addressed the points about the videos you posted being a peaches to casabas comparison. No offense intended to casabas. Or Peaches. ;)
    A swing/AT class on a particular topic or any regular class? What sorts of ideas would you expect to come from attending that class?
    'Cuz it's fun. :razz:

    I don't see it as sanitized or castrated. I feel that the ballroom dances I do have had a bit of time to evolve their own sabor. I've done vintage waltz. I prefer ballroom waltz and freely accept any constraints as a reasonable exchange. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2017
  9. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    And I'm kinda chuckling, because I've tried a wee bit more than an "hour or two" of Swing classes. Heck, I've *taught* more Swing than that, lol.

    Funny thing is, I could swear there's been this same type of discussion for as long as I've been on the interwebz. To quote BSG: This has all happened before, it will all happen again.

    Que sera, sera.
     
  10. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Moderator

    What specific elements of styling, presentation, and technique would you identify as being the same in cha cha and waltz? :)
     
  11. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Even though I don't like to watch "ballroom" dance anymore (I once did, but found other dance forms to fit my temperment better), it's pretty obvious that rhythm is not the only thing that differs from dance to dance. As confirmation of that, all you have to do is listen to the judges on SYTYCD when they have a "ballroom" dance. The judges are all over things such as how steps are taken, top line, rise and fall, etc.
    And, they expect different things for different dances!
    (When they comment on Argentine Tango and some other dances ("swing" included) I think they show their lack of knowledge.)
     
  12. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Moderator

    Interesting points, old dog! I've attended percussion-only ensemble performances. It was still music. Also, STOMP comes to mind.
    Very good point!
    :cheers:
     
  13. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Because they all have their merit as completely separate and beautiful dances in their own right. As much as I love AT, and don't care for BR tango, and admit that BR had its roots in AT...it's now its own dance, which should be judged on its own merit.

    If you always think of them as "sanitized, castrated" versions of the originals, you can't see the beauty in them that's there. Better, I think, to accept them on their own terms...as dances which began somewhere, but have morphed into something wholly different. And beautiful.
     
  14. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Ahhhh!!!! Ghosts of AT threads past!!! Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

    Heh. This is/can be a huge can of worms in the AT community. Are the new forms still AT, or have they (d)evolved into something completely different (worse)? What is AT? How far back do you have to go, style-wise, to consider things genuine AT? Take it back far enough, and the roots (AFAIK) can be traced in part to African slave dancers. Where is the line drawn?

    Heh...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2017
  15. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    As you can see, it was all downhill for the original Tango when indoor plumbing made showering for Argentine cowboys possible. :D
     
  16. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Dance changes, evolves, mutates - isn't that the very beauty of improvisational dance?

    History is history, its interesting to know what a particular dance is like - but does it affect the way we dance?

    Incidentally Peaches, a few months back I did some social ballroom and found it fantasitically easier after my experience with AT. I just danced. I could use the AT lead and technique to maneouvre my partner round floor much more fluently than the formal ballroom stuff I'd learned.

    Doing Ballroom with an AT lead and mindset was actually very pleasant. . . . . . anyone have a similar experience? Once you get rid of the formal Ballroom styling and concentrating on that the Waltz is a really nice dance.
     
  17. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Moderator

    Albanaich, could you please explain how the styling, presentation, and technique are identical in cha cha and waltz? :)
     
  18. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    I think I demonstrated that the cha cha cha, Argentine Tango and Lindy Hop (I don't have a 'pre-ballroo' Waltz example available) are completely different dances.

    Somehow or other Slavik and the ballroom community make them look similar in style and presentation.

    Three non ballroom dances

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqbuE...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj12nUQKrBE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uBwm3FjdP0

    The three ballroom versions

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw9JmWplL68

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95lUV-CGFIk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvQvYJTra8

    I would say the 3 ballroom versions look far more like each other than they do the originals. The ballroom Cha Cha Cha is way closer to the ballroom tango in style than it is the original Cha Cha Cha - though of course its a different rhythm.
     
  19. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Moderator

    "Look similar" is not the same as "identical". How are the styling, presentation, and technique identical? :)
     
  20. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    It depends on how you want to define the term 'identical'

    When I moved from Lindy to Ballroom room waltz, I tried to dance with a crouched over bent frame that was identical to the one I used in Lindy Hop.

    Some time had to be spent correcting that.

    If you dance all your dances with the same, identical frame, all your dancing will take on the same style.
     

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