General Dance Discussion > Stigma With Ladies Asking?

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by africana, Aug 12, 2005.

  1. africana

    africana New Member

    Yes that's great 8) I told my friend something similar, but haven't had a chance to test him :twisted: (actually he's learning on2 now he has to keep things simple for that style while learning the basic)

    ahh well, with many dances in a single night I don't really have time to obsess over whether or not one particular dance made me look bad
  2. gte692h

    gte692h Member

    okay, some thoughts on this topic:

    in the past, as a beginner, i would love it when women asked me to dance. i was shy, nervous, etc, and considering all the rejections i had experienced, it was a huge relief that women were asking me to dance. a big boost to the ego, plus, as many dances as i could get were appreciated, because i wanted to improve.

    now, almost 2 years since i started, my philosophy and purpose for dance has changed. rejection doesn't bother me as much. dancing now is about moving, more than the 'moves'. i do a few simple ones, lead them well, mostly i dance to enjoy being in my own skin. most importantly, salsa has become a lifestyle. i walk into the club to soak up the atmosphere, to really appreciate where i am, and the people around me, the live music. congas, clave, timbales, everything. i don't really have the desire to dance all night. i dance on 'feels' - so if the song stirs something in me, i get up and i dance. and i don't care who it is with. many times, i might just sit down, and enjoy the company of friends.

    it is in this context that i get annoyed if i am asked to dance by a woman. only a slight feeling of annoyance, because i say 'yes'. i still never refuse, but on the inside, i am going through the motions so that they are happy. i never wanted to dance that dance, i probably never felt that song.

    last week, it got particularly bad. i was having a horrible week, and i was really depressed when i got to the club. which is rare ;) but i knew that all i wanted to do was enjoy the music, talk to friends. i just didn't feel like dancing. also, that night happened to be a tough night for the ladies because there were not many guys. i got asked a lot, and i turned atleast 4 women down. it felt miserable turning them down, but i knew i would hate it if i got up and danced, when i didn't feel like it at all. there is a point for me where i say, 'if i dance with her on her request, it is purely to make her happy. i won't feel a damn thing. now, how valuable is she to me, that i must make her happy by saying 'yes' ? i did engage them in conversation instead.

    in any case, the episode last week was rare. i made up for it, by going up to the same women another night, and giving them the best dance i could. for one girl, i even apologized for last week. they were real good sports.
  3. africana

    africana New Member

    Yes I know lots of experienced dancers like this both male and female, it comes with the territory, over time

    myself I have those live-band nights when I just want to soak it in, dance by myself, whatever, but just not in the mood to follow someone else, or at least for some songs

    or those nights when the dancers present are just not my cup of tea

    just wanted to add: it's good to explain why not if you're not feeling like dancing rather than dancing when you don't feel like it at all
  4. hepcat

    hepcat Member

    In the swing dance scenes I've been privy to, it is considered rude to say no to the offer of a dance, either way. I personally have a policy of never saying no to a dance offer, even if she's a horrible dancer. At the most, I may put them off and say "how about the next one, I'd like to sit out one". However, I'm aware that such a policy might not scale well in a larger scene. But regardless, I have nothing against a girl asking for a dance. The tango scene here is different however. There are a number of women who don't dance at all because they refuse to ask. One of the ladies in charge has been encouraging men to ask other women to dance, to the point where they designate the first hour as a time when you are to dance with someone new or haven't much danced with. I don't know why the women there don't ask, but I will admit to not asking many women myself in that scene simply because my tango skill is very basic and I feel intimidated. However, I still wouldn't say no (even though girls there don't ask).

    Well, if you ask me, from what I've experienced in "open" scenes and "closed" scenes (by that I mean scenes where no one says no and where people often say no), it seems to me to have to do with snooty superiority surrounding people's sense of their own dance skill. I don't think of it in terms of dance skill (at least not in the swing scene). I'm there to meet people and have fun, first and foremost. I'm not prowling. I'm not showing off. I'm just having fun. In fact whenever some girl says no (who is typically someone who's a beginner) because they claim they don't know how, I never take that as an excuse and have been 99% effective in getting them to dance anyway.

    If the girl is worrying about how they're coming across, then it seems to me like they have an ulterior motive other than being there to simply have fun. Not that that's a bad thing. I just think that if you want to "meet" someone, it's more likely to happen if you're not "trying". I could be wrong, but that's the way I look at it.

    Not at all.

    Actually, it could have to do more with how good a dancer they are, which I suppose translates to attractiveness, but maybe not in all cases.

  5. clave

    clave New Member

    Well, not quite the way I meant it, but that works too. :)

    Let me use the infamous Ferrari analogy. Say you're driving a Yugo, and one day a friend lets you borrow her Ferrari. You could put the pedal to the metal immediately, but most likely you'd kiss the first tree in your path. It takes quite some time getting used to the four hundred horses undred the hood after being used to the 40 or so your Yugo puts out on a good day. I felt precisely this way when I first danced with Edie the Salsa Freak: a tiny little inside tug on a behind-the-back x-body and off she goes into a triple spin. Whoa! Had I tried to follow through with a more complicated combination like a 180 that I use often (in place of my signature slack-jawed-awe styling that I wisely substituted in the heat of the moment) it probably would have ended up as a boob-grab or worse. The way it turned out, I'm sure not a single soul was looking at me, but I got the compliments nevertheless. ;)

    Keep it simple!
  6. luh

    luh Active Member

    i lost it totally. no way i can keep this up anymore.
  7. clave

    clave New Member

    Oh, and to get back on topic, it really annoys me that girls don't ask more. As a follow you have a much easier time following no matter how bad the lead is. It's much tougher for the guys who don't lead well yet. Please, please ask the guys who stand around the edges of the dance floor stuck in their own beginner hell, encourage them with a smile. It won't kill ya, and they'll remember you when they become really, really good. You reap what you sow and all that.
  8. kdogg

    kdogg New Member

    Good Karma!!!
  9. africana

    africana New Member

    you lost what?? have you been having too many beers? :lol:
    (ok my fault this time :lol:)
  10. luh

    luh Active Member

    i was eating, - supper, no beer at all. but while that, 2 more pages of stuff developed, and i kind of lost the situation

    @kdogg: very nice, ditto. I thought it was pretty cool when i started dancing. girls would dance with me, no matter if i just do basic, and mabye later only inside turns. and look what happend :p - i went away. no just kidding :D

    no but really, be nice to beginners. :D
    p.s. we had some wine, and some prosecco, a bday celebration. not much though. maybe 2 glasses of wine and one of prosecco. i def prefer beer ;) (it's more honest)
  11. africana

    africana New Member

    :lol: 8)
    thanks for the laugh luh
  12. dancergal

    dancergal New Member

    Hi Dancegal, I'm Dancergal, :) I know exactly what you're talking about. I dance WCS too and recently moved to a new city. It has been very hard for me to feel comfortable in our dance club because of exactly the same reasons you point out here. What I'm doing now is trying to attend some of the classes they offer before the dance so I can meet some of the leaders in class. I also try not to sit with my husband. Men won't ask me to dance if we are sitting together. (Women have no problem asking him to dance even if we are sitting together). I also try standing somewhere near the dance floor, so it is easier to get to the floor. If I sit down, men don't ask me as much. Go figure.....It has been a few months and finally I feel more comfortable asking a few of the men to dance and they are also asking me. I guess because I'm a familiar face now, who knows. I also was ready to stop going to the dances, I was so discouraged. I'm just not really good at asking men to dance, but I'm trying to do it more and no one has refused. And now they also ask me to dance. It is also very different when I dance C&W. I always get asked to dance there. I don't know what's up with WCS.
  13. brujo

    brujo New Member

    There is a title? Is there a ceremony involved? Does it involve a proof of skill? I don't understand. It's social dance - the difference between an 'advanced' vs 'intermediate' dancer is subjective.
  14. luh

    luh Active Member

    :shock: that is confusing, i knew i was living in a world where cloning is allowed. but even in DANCE FORUM? :lol:

    funny, the sitting together. people over also never ask people who seem like a couple. I never care - It's swing, it's part of the fun. Sometimes though i like to organise a follower with me, so we can ask both for a dance ;)
  15. africana

    africana New Member which case you had no real point
    (and i thought it was obvious that "title" is half-mocking but...)
  16. luh

    luh Active Member

    @brujo, i don't think the point is about the title, it's about that what an advanced makes, is that he can handle "almost anything dished out to them, including, (or rather, especially) complex leads".

    btw, i totally agree on that. :D
  17. BrookeErin

    BrookeErin New Member

    luh... there's been a lot to catch up on

    I liked all the "food" analogies, but I really wanted to comment on the dancing versus chatting. I have friends on both sides...friends I dance with, friends who are way smarter than me that I love to go sit with when I need a break from dancing, friends who I can dance with and chat with. Some nights I want more of one and less of another. I love being able to dance my heart out and come back and continue a political/religious/social debate.
  18. africana

    africana New Member

    cool 8)

    Occassionally I get interesting talks, but it's usually after all the major dancing is done, everybody's tired or bored and such. It's just hard for me to focus on someone asking me questions and stuff while a fabulous live band is on or a favorite DJ is spinning AND there are good dancers around to dance with.
    It's just conditions (and people) aren't so conducive to intense discussions, and when they are I'm usually just too hyped up for dancing :?

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