Tango Argentino > Tango and relationship

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by fazz, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. plugger

    plugger Member

    Well, it's not entirely for men and women to come together and meet up. It's also so that they can enjoy dancing with a variety of partners, whether they're committed or not. I've known couples who only dance with their mates, and they're nice people, but that's a definite minority in my limited experience. This is something each couple needs to work out. Good luck!
  2. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Ok, I defended you, now I'm going to defend the rest of us.

    It is "fundamentally not ok" for YOU.

    In other words whether or not it is ok is subjective and not a "fundamental fact". For the rest of us, it is ok, and you should not pass judgment on what we think is or isn't ok any more than people should be judging you for your beliefs about physical contact between men and women.

    If the main purpose of social dancing was just to allow men and women to meet, then once they'd met and gotten involved, they'd stop dancing.

    The fundamental purpose of dancing of any kind, social or not, is to DANCE. For those of us who have dance in our souls, we HAVE to dance. Dance is a purpose all unto itself.. the other people are just icing on the cake, the style of dance is the flavoring in the cake. But Dancing is the cake.

    It is not ok for others to tell you that you shouldn't feel the way you feel about your own body and that of whoever you commit your life to. But it is also not ok for you to make a sweeping global statement about what is and isn't ok for committed couples that AREN'T you.

    There is nothing fundamentally ok or not ok about dancing tango while in a relationship. It's just opinions and decisions that each person makes for themself.
  3. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I don't think you understand the etiquette for AT, at least not for any place I've danced at. If you go to a dance (in tango, we call them milongas), there is NO, None, Zero pressure to dance with anyone that you don't want to dance with. Thus, if a couple goes to a milonga and they don't want to dance with anyone else, that's fine. In fact, most men typically will not ask a woman to dance if she is with another guy (unless the man knows they are OK about dancing with other people). Also, some guys will ask the guy she is with, if it is OK to ask her to dance.

    Now the etiquette for classes is different. In many classes, the expectation is that people will swap partners, and usually if a class is not going to be have swapping of partners, that information is included in the class description.

    The issue for the OP is that she has a different opinion from her partner about who they will dance with at milongas. She asked for our opinions, and received them. If the OP and her partner were in agreement (whether it was to dance with only themselves, or to dance with others), then there would be no issue.
  4. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    There have been some great comments that might help Fazz, and others, better understand my initial point. First, I do want to ditto this, by ant....
    afterall, to be happy is why we do it. Too often, we allow too many things which are really unrelated, and trivial to the overall goal, to get in the way of the purpose of just being happy through the dance.

    And, rightly you should. This is the ultimate "happy" in social dance... to be able to do it with someone who can connect in a way that is as special as the dance itself. I didn't mean to give this up. What I meant was to give up all of the things that will cause issue, hurdles, and deviations from reaching this desire. If sharing your feelings for tango with "him" (or whomever is the S.O.), is the desire, then agree between the two of you that it is a shared desire, and focus on "that", and not all of the other unimportant parts (what other women might want/feel).
    OK... :) , a sidebar, but I like it. I might steal it.

    And, I believe this, too. Just that you are willing to; bear it here, take/share in the thoughts/opinions of all of us, continue to reply says that you are on the right track. And, I definitely agree that your perceptions will change as you grow in AT and in life as a direct/indirect result of AT.
  5. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Yeah, I got that. Basically, this topic has gone waaaay away from "dancing" by now I think...

    Yes, I agree, that would be different.
  6. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but ... you cannot make change somebody.
    You can change only yourself.

    Topic became outside of dance topics.
  7. fazz

    fazz New Member

    Hi all...

    ok I think I need to elaborate a bit about the part of " partner dancing is not fundamentally ok for commited partners" I think its applied to me and other couples who expect exclusivity. Of course anything is appropriate for couples as long as both parties are ok with it ( hey we have swingers and open marriage lol) . But if we look at to the fundamental purpose of social dancing ( ok someone needs to dance but it is a social dancing )and the fundamental part of being an exclusive partner, then I think theres a clash there.

    So this is not by any means a generalization or global statement, but rather the basic purpose of being exclusive in a relationship and the fact that it is a social dancing ( that's why it involves flirtatious elements in it).


    I also believe that you can dance with whoever you want including if you want to dance exclusively with someone in AT.....that's what I expected in a relationship but everybody seems to be against it..

    I believe social dancing means you can dance with everybody with mutual consent including if you want to dance with a specific someone and it should be like it......and why not?

    My issue arises and I had the same discussion with him that " it is a social dance of course I need to dance with etc etc and It has been like that for ages"

    Of course deep inside he wants to dance around, but he stated that idea to reinforce his toughts. Or I think the idea comes first and he grows with it and that mannerism is what he gets used to.

    It would be diifferent if both ideas are given the same weight esp for commited couples. Because it does not really cross to his mind to dance exclusively in AT because the emphasis of AT is a social dance therefore once you are in the scene then everybody shares...

    but I understand that if that's what he wants then the idea is just something to back up his mind,


    if both ideas were given the same highlight , at least it will come to an understanding and consideration regarding the intimacy in AT that once he/she gets commited with someone, the other option of dancing exclusively in AT might be expected from a partner and without the risk of getting frowned or.....well you see what happen in this forum also...no I dont mean to fire things up I just trying to be factual.

    By the way he was the one asking me and I had no idea about the tango scene and it never crosses his mind that I would expect exclusivity, nor I aware of it.

    And if this thing is understood that " you can choose to dance exclusivey" with someone VIP and is given the same highlight as in " you should dance with as many partners" then social dancing would be appropriate for couples/ non couples ( fundamentally)
  8. fazz

    fazz New Member

    By the way for the replies regarding " its way out of topic of dancing"

    I think its because it not about the dance itself but It is relevant because Its the "expected side effect" of social dancing.

    As in this topic of dance and relationship, its not about the technique etc, but rather we talk about the implication of social dancing and how the people who get involves in it react/affected from social dancing and AT in specific for this discussion.
  9. pascal

    pascal Active Member

    Precisely it is the safest scene to change partners. It's all roleplay. It's fake intimacy. Yesterday during the class my partner kept shouting things like "See, at the beginning he was so nice, now he's not even looking at me..." and at the end of the class the pupils asked us since how long we were married. We answered that we were married but not with eachother. Once the class is over we're strangers again, I don't think she even knows my name. There is less temptation for your boyfriend in a milonga than if he was playing tennis or bridge with the same ladies.
  10. fazz

    fazz New Member

    By the way personally I believe that couples dont have to share ( but of course they can if they want to) and why not.

    But actually this discussion arises because I feel hopeless because everybody seems to be against it that's why actually I was asking how are couples who expects exclusivity deal with the tango scene that "demand" you to change partners.

    unless the community is giving the same emphasis and understanding for both options ( to change or not to change partners).
  11. fazz

    fazz New Member

    fake intimacy is like swingers and open marriage and watching porn which are those are in the grey area where some people would not very comfortable in it ;)

    By the way It almost blows my head when there's one time I was upset because there's this girl come up to him and keep asking him to dance in a....errr.....too friendly way and I was upset and he does not even know her name but he said "of course she is like that i danced with her for hours in one festival." ( when he was still single though)

    at least for me, no its even too crowded for those nameless chicks.... he has alot because of this tango community ( I'm not saying tango dancing and I say tango because im trying to be specific with this issue)
  12. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Your options are pretty simple and straightforward.

    1) You and your S.O. agree that that "dancing around" is not compatible with a committed relationship, or you don't.

    2) Depending on the outcome to #1, you either ignore the conventions and take whatever fallout from that may happen, or you don't.

    End of story.

    Either the problem is between you and your partner, or between the two of you and your scene. I can't tell from your posts.

    But since you're going to paint this in black and white, moral terms, I'm giving you a black and white answer. Either work it out with your partner, or decide together how you're going to handle the community you dance in. (And, really, why do you give a damn what they think. You're not there to dance with them anyway, or socialize with them anyhow.)

    Why all the hand-wringing?
  13. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    I find tango argentino is the most prudish style among all other partner and couple dances. There is so much more "traffic" in standard ballroom, salsa or swing communities. Nothing is as difficult as to find a partner within the tango world. Why? Granted, there is flirting around. But in the end it´s always this dazed gathering of relationally disturbed individuals. (ok, is a bit exaggerated now)
  14. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    "Relationally disturbed Individuals" you may have a grain of truth but methinks you are Grammatically disturbed.. As a therapist friend noted; "Your milongas seem to attract slightly abnormal people."

    I conclude that "normal" people are too busy having lives, too lazy to learn to dance a difficult dance or cant stand the melancholy sound of the bandoneon. I am neither dazed nor disturbed, merely eccentric, ask either of my friends. ;)
  15. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    ok, lets have a list of exceptions, here:

    - - -

    But, I warn you, mind, if everyone around is on that list finally :p ..then you are in again..
  16. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    Senegal's proverb: "Don't try to make someone hate the person he loves, for he will still go on loving, but he will hate you."

    If you partner didn't dance with those ladies you are jealous at, he would like to dance with them anyway.

    There are followers that every time I dance with I cheer up, but we don't have any emotional connection.

    Does he need permission to talk with certain women that you find "dangerous"?
  17. Nathan

    Nathan Member

    Rather than causing tension in your relationship or within the community, it might be more effective to make friends with these women yourself.
  18. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Sure... if the other person wants that too. But in your case, the other person DOESN'T want that. That's the real problem here.. not what WE think, not what other people in your dance community think... The problem is what your boyfriend thinks. And he's just as entitled to his view as you are to yours.

    Your views are incompatible.

    (although, I admit that given the shortage of leaders most places, if he refused to dance with anyone but you, especially after having danced with others up til now, other followers WOULD grumble.. no one wants to go to a dance and not get to dance because they don't have a partner and couples only dance with one another)

    Even if it were considered and respected as a choice, it wouldn't improve the situation you're in: One of you wanting one thing and the other wants the opposite.

    It's equally valid in society for people to have kids or not have kids. But if one spouse wants kids and the other doesn't, it's still a problem. There really isn't a compromise that works. You either have kids or you don't. How do you compromise? Borrow kids from someone else for a few days per week? Have kids that only one spouse ever deals with at all?

    Seriously... some things can't be solved through compromise. You and your bf have stumbled onto one of them. You either dance tango with other people or you don't. You are at opposite ends of the spectrum in this. You are incompatible. You're going to have to accept that. Either you will have to change how you feel on this issue, or you will have to change boyfriends. You can't force, require, expect or hold out hope that he will change, or that we will say something that you can take to him that will convince him to change.

    Social dancing IS appropriate for couples just the way it is. It is not appropriate for YOU and how you feel as part of a couple. My favorite leaders are ALL in committed relationships. One of them is married, but he has a different person as his primary tango partner even though his wife dances. Like my bf and I, he and his wife tend to bicker when they dance tango together.

    If people all felt as you do, I'd have no one to dance with because those leaders would be dancing exclusively with their wives. In fact, in our smallish community (and quite a few others I've heard about) leaders consider it somewhat of a community obligation to dance with some of the the unattached women. Naturally they have their favorite partners (who may or may not be their life partners) but some leaders make an effort to dance with as many different people as possible so that more followers get to dance. This is not romantic or sexy... it's just considerate.
  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    You are not part of a couple that expects exclusivity. YOU expect exclusivity and your bf expects to change partners. The "tango scene" is not is not your problem... your incompatibility with your boyfriend is the problem.

    If a couple took up tango and only danced with each other, people might wonder why, but they'd hardly be pariahs of the community. Most likely people would assume that they were too insecure in their dancing ability to dance with others and would try to help them out. Once it became clear that they only wanted to dance with one another, people would stop asking them.

    That is NOT the situation you are in.
  20. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    admire ! If I only could write as you can. Even in my own language I am far from your abilities :| (and no tongue at all)


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