Swing Discussion Boards > The Difference Between WCS and Lindy Hop Enthusiasts.

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by Spitfire, Oct 23, 2003.

  1. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    Something else I've noticed.

    At any lindy dance that I've ever been to the group class beforehand is either single time or triple time; seldom is it any eight count. I've been told that the one of reasons is that it will make it less difficult to learn eight count if this is taught first which makes sense.

    Lindy classes here are generally given seperate from the dances.

    The WCS group here on the other hand teaches strictly WCS at all their classes.
  2. CCKitty

    CCKitty New Member

    Lindy Hop

    In the Milwaukee area also, the free swing lesson before a dance is typically 6 count (East Coast) Swing. A person who never danced before can learn enough in 30 minutes to play with it and have fun for the rest of the evening.

    Lindy Hop requires about 3 lessons to get the basics and some practice time before it feels comfortable.
    A person can learn Lindy Hop without learning 6 count swing first, but it is always a benefit to have some dance experince first. Especially knowing the basics of how to lead and follow.
  3. SwinginBoo

    SwinginBoo New Member

    Re: Lindy Hop

    I couldn't agree more. It is only my opinion, but it seems that knowledge of 6 count makes it easier to transition into 8 count. It also provides more resources to draw upon when dancing.
  4. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    Re: Lindy Hop

    That's another reason that was put to me since the hosts like to see as many people dancing as possible - seems to work.

    The last lindy workshop held here included ECS as well.
  5. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Personally I abhor the idea of teaching anything before lindy hop as a "requirement". If I want to learn how to run a marathon, learning how to sprint isn't going to do me much good. All that time is better spent learning what I actually want to achieve, IMO.

    Most "lindy dances" are actually simply swing dances. In the club environment ECS dancers don't normally last. They either move on to a new hobby or pick up the more versatile lindy hop.

    Lindy hop is often taught in a far more complicated manner thasn necessary and ecs is usually taught in a throw away format. Neither is particularly beneficial.
  6. jon

    jon Member

    Only in environments where there's a lindy hard core to influence things. For example, the swing dance community in the Research Triangle in the early 1990s, prior to the lindy boomlet, sustained hundreds of ECS dancers.

    I think it's very appropriate to teach 6-count ECS as the beginning lesson. Very few new dancers could go from zero to doing a Lindy swingout competently after one hour's lesson. And very few of them know what they "want to achieve" other than having a fun evening.
  7. CCKitty

    CCKitty New Member

    pre-event dance lesson

    No other dance experience is required when I teach a lindy series. But there is a noticable difference in the learning curve between people who already know how to lead and follow, and those who don't.

    I spend a great deal of time on very basic lead and follow techniques, which is review to some and brand new concepts to others. The newbies have so much more to remember all at once.
  8. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Absolutely true Kitty! If I'm reading Damon's post correctly, however, I think his point is that the fastest way to teach someone Lindy is to teach them Lindy... AOFBE, of course. (Did I get that right?)
  9. Swing Kitten

    Swing Kitten New Member

    Oh definately CCKitty, that lead follow connection is the entire point... and takes practice. I would be shocked if there wasn't a difference between the newbies and those who know another dance. Sort of like those who already know a language other than their own can learn more languages more easily.

    How long have you been teaching? Rock on with your lindy teaching self!!
  10. Dancegal

    Dancegal Member

    I once took a one-night 2 hour Lindy "crash course" after I had been ECS dancing for months (but had not had WCS lessons yet) and was not comfortable at all with the swingout by the end of the night. I practiced it, but the circular nature of the dance made me dizzy (had not experienced this with other dances), struggled with the steps to the point that I did not enjoy it and chose not to take further lessons at the time. It wasn't until I had danced WCS for 4 months that I wanted another dance challenge and chose Lindy again. It was waaaay easier to learn the second time around and much more enjoyable. Made ECS look like just "plain vanilla" dancing.

    I find that the Lindy connection is "tighter" than that of WCS (due to the body positioning and the circular vs. slotted-WCS nature of the dance) and it did take about 2-3 months to get the right connection "feel" -but it was SO worth it. It opened a whole new dancing world and introduced me to what I call the Lindy "subculture". In ECS dancing, I've seen folks get away with connection that's little more than holding fingertips and the moves do not allow much room for the follow to "play" a little. Personally, I like the Lindy connection :wink: better. Beginners with little dance experience do need to be taught basic single & triple step 6-count (easy to learn and apply immediately on the dance floor), and taught basic connection (particularly closed position) in order to smoothly transition into Lindy dancers.
  11. CCKitty

    CCKitty New Member

    teaching lindy

    Well, I'm really an intermediate lindy hopper - but I'm competent, and I have a knack for clear teaching. (Part of my day job involves teaching too). I've taught lindy for about 2 years now. I started teaching because of the lack of leads in our lindy scene. Our social dance scene had about 10 follows for every lead here for awhile. I'm not exaggerating!

    Several follows volunteered to help out. A friend (a lead) and I put together a 4 week series of beginner lindy hop and advertised it with flyers that were given out to leads only. No follows were turned away....but I suggested that they try to capture a lead to bring with them.

    We've had several very successful classes of lindy hoppers.
  12. CCKitty

    CCKitty New Member

    We taught lindy hop in a way that we had not seen anyone else teach. It seemed to work very well. We began (like most teachers) teaching the rhythm/footwork in place (or going around the room) without partners. But (unlike others) when we started teaching the basics with partners we taught several spins before teaching the lindy circle and finally after 2 weeks, the basic swing out. The swing out is a tricky thing to master and the students seemed to get it much easier after having a couple weeks of playing with the rhythm.
  13. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    I do have an interest in getting more into Lindy Hop, but I do have some concerns here.

    To begin with I have been doing triple time ECS for a very long time now having learned it long before lindy hop made a revival and this along with cha-cha are my equal favorites. When you find something you like you tend to stick with it so with me there is that if the toy's not broke don't fix it mind set so Lindy Hop to me would be an addition and not a replacement once and if I get around to it.

    I have learned the throwout move that is the basic component. This is a very nice stylish move, but I don't know if I could do this move repeatedly as I have seen lindy dancers do here. If I'm missing something here I'm certainly open to suggestions.

    Lindy instruction is not readily available since the scene here has diminished and thus there are not many classes given by the local lindy group at this time. The studios here for their part have not been teaching lindy because there just hasn't been a demand for it.

    I don't question the personal viewpoints of lindy dancers who say that lindy hop is more energetic and versatile then ECS and maybe it's just me, but I certainly feel as though I've been able to take things beyond "plain vanilla."
  14. suek

    suek New Member

    Spitfire, get your butt to Mesa tonite! The Phoenix exchange is on (www.phoenixlindyexchange.com) and I'm there in spirit if not in body. The Phoenix area lindy scene is alive and well and has some great people and excellent dancers.

    The dance tonite is in the Mesa Sheraton. All in conjunction with the jazz festival...live music.

    Call 480 205-4151. Tell Dabney hello from me.

    Go. Dance. Watch. And then dance some more. Stop analyzing; let your body--your heart and your pulse and your feet--decide.


  15. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    I was thinking of going up tommorow night. Don't want to do so tonight since there's Halloween dance party I'm going to attend.
  16. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Don't worry Spitfire, no one will insist that you stop dancing ECS... however with time you'll probably decide you prefer Lindy Hop...


    Most of what you know and love in ECS is taken directly from Lindy Hop. We use a bit more "natural" lead/follow to create the exact same moves. If Cha-Cha and ECS are your favorites I can't imagine you falling i love with Lindy Hop... the footwork rhythm is extremely similar to CHa-Cha (we sing the "cha-cha-cha" part, but it is step-step, triple-step, step-step, triple-step) the moves are again the root of most of the ECS moves just done with a slightly differnt "character".

    Throw out and the whip/swingout are variations of the same move but we don't execute a series of throw outs. The main swing out starts in an extended open, one handed position brings the follower in you turn her around clockwise, and send her back out. It is the linking move, so it is not necessary done as frequently as the basic step in ECS it is used to transition from the other moves.

    Hook up wiht Dabney. He will be able to get the ball rolling for you letting you know what workshop/events are in Arizona and make suggestions about what you can do in your neck of the woods.
  17. CCKitty

    CCKitty New Member

    repeated swing-outs

    Most lindy hoppers don't do swing out after swingout once they learn more variations. They like to mix it up.

    Before I learned to lindy hop, I was only doing ECS. A couple of instructors threw in a few 8 count moves. It was only with those moves that I experienced break-throughs in my learning process.

    I later came to realize that 8 count dances are more in tune with the music. In the music, patterns repeat in series of 8 beats. I felt the music more when I danced 8 count rhythms, and was able to anticipate the breaks without knowing the particular songs.
  18. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    Ah, the cha-cha similarity; cha- cha even has a variation on the throw out. 8)
  19. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    Another difference is the dances themselves. Here there is usually live music and the lindy/swing dances, but the WCS dances are all recorded music.
  20. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    If I can get back to this subject.

    This is another point. Many of the moves I learned in ECS such as the continuous tuck turn, pretzel and reverse pretzel, wrap in and yo-yo and arm slide; I myself have never seen lindy hoppers use any of these patterns making me think these are perhaps purely ECS style allthough They do work with eight count as well and some of the lindy follows who have danced ECS with me thought they were actually quite cool.

    Are they a part of lindy too?

    Again, I can only go by what I see here.

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