General Dance Discussion > The Electric Slide: Who Owns It?

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by DanceMentor, Mar 21, 2007.

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  1. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

  2. Genesius Redux

    Genesius Redux New Member

    Without getting into all the legal muddles of copyright and trademark and blah blah blah...these kinds of disputes about intellectual property make me almost nostalgic for the days of the Cold War.
     
  3. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    My first and last attempt at that was at a party with some exchange students, in practical terms marking the end of the cold war.
     
  4. Genesius Redux

    Genesius Redux New Member

    LOL. and the beginning of a whole new series of squabbles about who gets to own what.

    Art needs to be, as much as possible, a free space. What professional dancers have to sell are their performances, and their expertise as teachers. The attempt to control or copyright steps and patterns betrays the desperation of those who can't really market themselves.

    In my distinctly unhumble opinion about this subject.
     
  5. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    And I agree with you.
     
  6. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I'll third that.
     
  7. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Yikes!
    There's an awful lot of verbage on the talk page for such a simple dance.
    I think it's great that people are engaging in a discussion about this. And a fair number of them have first hand knowledge.

    The "wiki" model is interesting. Anyone can "post" anything they want, but other people are free to rip things to shreds. I have found that if you have good refereneces for things that you post, they are usually respected.
    More often than not in real life, determining the "absolute" truth is impossible.

    One of the inter agency projects I work on was recently introduced to the wiki model of doing things. I'm looking forward to seeing how the implimentation of that goes, considering the personalities of the people involved.

    Thank goodness someone stepped into the Wikipedia discussion to "moderate".

    Me, if they put on "Electric Slide", I'm gonna go sit down.
    "Boogie woogie, woogie" indeed.
     
  8. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I just did a side by side comparison of the "copyrighted" version and what people do everywhere I've ever seen the dance done.
    The copyrighted version is not the one that people do. It is listed in the Kickit database as "The Electric (aka Electric Slide)", and is a contra dance.
    I think Ric is going to lose this one. ie In my opinion he does not "own" The Electric Slide. But then I'm not a lawyer.
     
  9. NYCsDancer

    NYCsDancer New Member

    Can't wait for my day in court!


    It is because of Peter at Kick It and people like Christy Lane and Diane Horner who put out line dance videos and used my choreography incorrectly and without my permission that the dance was learned incorrectly in the first place. I wrote to Peter back in 1998 when he 1st put up his site and politely asked him to correct his site and he refused and has been bad mouthing me ever since. I will have my day in court soon and we'll see who is laughing then, since I have full documentation and witnesses that were there with me at the time. My site has been up since 12/94 and is updated regularly with what is going on. http://the-electricslide.com/id6.html and the Official Website for The Electric at http://the-electricslidedance.com/id3.html
    Check out the facts for yourselves. Ric Silver
     
  10. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

  11. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Also, on your website you state:
    "Below are just some of the dance moves I have choreographed"
    Locking 1968
    Poppin 1968
    The Weeble 1968
    The Robot 1972
    Breakdancing 1972
    The Texas Silver Star 1984

    Are you claiming you own those dances too?
    (or just that you made use of another person's work and incorporated them into your works?)
     
  12. Pacion

    Pacion New Member

    Does this mean that if I go to an aerobics class, I might end up having to paying royalty fees if the teacher incorporates some of the moves into the routine? :?
     
  13. NYCsDancer

    NYCsDancer New Member

    Try telling that to Martha Graham or Balanchine. Or any other dance company in this country who copyright their works to protect them from misuse or theft. I feel that art should be free as well - but artists have to protect themselves from theft and misrepresentation. I was a professional dancer for many years, my resume is listed at http://the-electricslide.com and I have been compared to Neuriev and Baryshnikov by a well known N Y Times art critic, until 1976 when I was teaching the Electric and someone brought a drink on the floor and I came down from a double turn in the air and landed on my right knee and tore my cartilege - which ended my dance career and I moved on to theatre performances.
    I love the way you ppl tear me apart and you don't even know the true facts or bother to take the time to check out the facts on my pages. I have documentation from the accident and have finally been able to post the original copyright that was handed out the evening I premiered the dance. I had been saving that for court - but this has gotten so out of hand that I got a scanner and posted it. This copyright is at this moment with the Library of Congress being registered..... as they gave us 25 years to register a piece and being a "starving artist" I didn't have the funds available to do it before now. The registration posted on my site is for the video I submitted (my 3rd attempted submission) which can be viewed in three parts at YouTube.
     
  14. NYCsDancer

    NYCsDancer New Member

    No! I created these dances and GAVE them to the world - I did not copyright any of them as people told me that no one would ever be able to do them but me...... how wrong they were. by the way - Lockin and Poppin is all one dance - altho now there are various styles.
     
  15. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    I don't think people necessarily have anything against you personally if they don't know you, but I think people may not agree with the claims you make, in light of the fact that thousands of people teach or perform this dance without knowledge there is a copyright holder. In addition, it seems there is a lawsuit involving you and the Electronic Frontier Foundation challenging your copyright. In the end you may very well be granted a copyright, and maybe you even plan to seek financial gain by asking for royalties from everyone that has ever taught or published your dance, but that does not mean that people will agree with you or support you.
     
  16. NYCsDancer

    NYCsDancer New Member

    NO! But the teacher may have to pay a fee if he or she is teaching The Electric and is charging you for the class.
     
  17. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Ric, I wish you luck with your law suit. But I can't help but think that there is something more worthwhile you could do with your time and money.
    What are you after? Do you want everyone who dances the "wrong" version of "your" dance to pay you a fee? Do you think a court will order an injunction that says no one can do the incorrect version of "your" dance? What?
    1 Who handed you a copyright notice? When I got one, it came from the copyright offce. Did they hand deliver it to you? Mine came in the mail.
    2 If that first copyright was legal, why did you reapply?
    3 If you copyrighted the Electric that was a contra dance, what does that have to do with the Electric Slide that we have all been doing?
    4 There are specific guidelines, as I understand it, about how much of another work you can use, even if it is copyrighted. This has recently been clarified(?) and there is something known as "Fair Use". I hope your lawyer is giving you good information on this and not just taking your money. Or are you your own lawyer?
    Ric, we have questions for you. Think of it as practice for your day in court. If your answers to a judge are the same as the answers you are giving us...

    P.S. I learned the dance before 1998, so Kickit had nothing to do with me learning the "wrong" version. In fact, when I went to my cousin's wedding in Pittsburgh, I was doing the "Western Electric" for some time before I figured out that they weren't doing the same Electric Slide that I was. Maybe you should claim that one, too.
     
  18. NYCsDancer

    NYCsDancer New Member

    The EFF has not even served me with papers yet... and I own the copyright which is at this very moment is being registered with the Library of Congress. I expect the paperwork in the next few weeks. Unfortunately I have gone thru 3 lawyers who charged me fees and then messed up the registration paperwork, I resubmitted the paperwok in Feb 2006 and am STILL waiting for the paperwork, as I have had a hard time with the proper paperwork to be submitted and had to get a 4th lawyer to do it right this time.
     
  19. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Is this statement true?
    What most people know to be "The Electric Slide" is not the dance you created.
     
  20. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Perhaps your dance is different enough from the versions that are done around the world that you are barking up the wrong tree? Lawyers sometimes try and take advantage of people. I see you say you are on your 4th lawyer, which is sort of suspicious to me. Something is not right here...
     
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