Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Zoopsia59, Feb 1, 2010.
Fire away ya'll!
what about it?
What move do you call an ocho cortado?
Do you have a video example that shows what you consider it to be?
Is it a step or a sequence?
Do you think some things are erroneously called Ocho C.?
Is there more than one "right" way to do it based on styles?
I remember several times the topic has come up in various threads, with the occasional poster mentioning how what most people call Ocho C really isn't or other specifics, but the conversation never gets explored.
So lets explore!
??? Curious, posted this only a few minutes ago, but no one seemed to be interested, then....
It´s only step, but teacher usually inflate it to a sequence consisting of fouettes, turns etc. The OC is a broken off and bounced back front8 just before the pivot would occur.
Here's an ocho cortado. It's how I learned it from Oscar Casas. It's how I do it.
There were no deep philosophical, meta-physical, resume inflated didactic, over-analytical thoughts about it (in my case).
Dancing it is just a simple matter of learning it, and applying/modifying its delivery based on the skill level of whomever I am dancing with. Eventually, it evolved into something uniquely "Mine."
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"da cor", ampster, that´s it.
Oscar's looks like a good example. It's an 8 figure that has been cut, it's not circular anymore, it's linear. That's why it is cortado. It allows for quicker dynamics and has a completely different feeling from the front ocho or a front step in front of the leader.
I think all of this debate over figures plagued tango-l and it makes dance talk fall into semantics since i'm sure someone else will have learned it to be different.
Could you post a video example of what you are referring to so I can compare that look to the one already posted?
I would consider 8-cortado to be a three count sequence, consisting only of the last three counts that Oscar shows. For me, the first three counts are not part of it, because you could do the last 3-cts coming from various other combinations.
To get involved semantically, I think the term implies an ocho that is cut in the middle.
Though I agree w/ Oscar, OD's link is a better example in that it is a simple ocho cortado; no tricks, no frills, no nothing. I completely agree w/ Amps in that it is a movement that requires no deep philosophical, meta-physical, resume inflated didactic, over-analytical anything. It is exactly what it says... a cut 8. Begin an ocho; break it in the middle, then complete it. Oscar's examples using his foot to create the quebrada is cool, but unnecessary if just learning.
OT Warning: Hey OD, I am interested in "da cor". Is this d' accord in the french, or some reference htat am unfamiliar with?
YES! It is a forward ocho interrupted... Cut short... Cortado
The 'cortado' is when the trailing woman's foot is forced to cut across in front of the other foot.. ok, next!:friend: The 'interruption' of the...whatever.... is just complicating the idea all over again. One has to understand that if a woman does the front ocho and reverses with another one coming back..that is NOT an ocho cortado..the Ocho cortado is the cutting line of the foot across in front of the other foot....here's one at 42 secs into the video..notice these include a side step after the front ocho..and a wiggle...very sexy!!
oops! Can one embed a video in these thread posts? I can't seem to do it here.
Here you go:
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I always failed to see where the ocho was. I lead a side step followed by a cross. There is never even the beginning of an ocho. Now for some reason the name is ocho cortado. I don't know what would be the spanish translation for a side step followed by a cross. Maybe it would not sound good. Maybe it would not sell.
Supposedly, the guy who named it, later admitted that he named it wrong..the idea is to get the figure and forget the translation.:argue:
Thanks Ampster..now why in the heck can't I do that?.. all I get is a block of gibberish.
Interesting idea. I'm coming from a Ragtime Tango background, where I learned that "Cortés" were "cuts", or steps that paused/stopped the movement.
For me, it starts off exactly like I'm leading a front ocho on my right side (a move I do quite a bit more than the ocho cortado, BTW), then occasionally I do cut it off. I've had a few number of followers who assume I'm going to lead the ocho cortado (instead of completing the ocho), and so they stop, when I just wanted them to complete the ocho.
This has always been weird to me as well and the way I lead ocho C is just what is shown on that first video.
IF you consider the entire 6 step combinatino the OC, then there is one front ocho in there.
But if you were to do the 2nd set of 3 steps to come out of something like a CW molinete', then I don't see how you could call any part of the OC an ocho, cut or not. There's a sidestep to the left which becomes more like an open "2nd position" rock-step that goes promptly back to the right foot (follower's) and then cross.
So the way I've been leading it IS what other's consider and OC, even though to me, there's not an ocho except as the 3rd step of the CCW 3 step part IF you start with a backstep on the right instead of a side step.
I'm still not clear on what a poster said upthread about "not circular anymore... more linear"
Yay! Video! (I have an incredibly difficult time making sense out of written descriptions.)
One...verrrrrry stupid...question. Y'all are gonna laugh.
Um...which part, exactly, is the ocho cortado? Is it the name for the combination of a step to the side and then back in a cross? Or the combination of a step around the leader (fwd) with one foot, followed by a side step, followed by the cross? Or the setup that comes before it? Because...maybe it's just me, since I only follow, so I haven't ever really given a lot of thought to what is actually going on...but to me it's just a side step, then a cross...sort of in a semi-circle around the leader. Kinda like a media luna, but not quite.
Like I said...stupid question.
Separate names with a comma.