Tango Argentino > The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Zoopsia59, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    :rocker:

    Yes... we are expected to do most, if not all, of the accommodating and adapting, and then when there is a problem or mistake, we are made to feel we are responsible for it occurring!

    Meanwhile, we get flack for suggesting that attitude counts or that you consider us to be at as least important as you are yourself.

    Is it any wonder that we get the impression that many guys are not willing to take their fair share of responsibility for the way the tanda goes and don't give a whit about how we feel afterwards?
     
  2. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    There's a lot of bitterness on display here. I'm fairly certain that every
    guy could talk about experiencing arrogant, impatient and intolerant ladies,
    especially when they're in the uncomfortable zone of learning to lead
    and trying to make something of the dance and the music.

    It's a moot point whether men have the more difficult job because of leading.
    If you accept that and the problems that men have in trying to lead ladies
    of many different abilities, and for that matter styles, what is so wrong
    for women to try and adapt more than men?

    But this is all so negative. It's a partner dance of two halves,
    each with a positive role to play. One doesn't work without the other.
    Isn't it time to stop the insults and respect one another?
     
  3. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Can't speak for anyone else, but I wasn't all that bitter when I started the thread. In fact, I was trying to make my point with a slight tongue in cheek attitude. The resistant reaction to the simple concept is what is adding to my bitterness.

    I'm sure there are women who are B****y and are every bit as bad as any man. But that's not what this thread was about. (You got a little heavy handed when you thought your thread was getting hijacked, so I can be heavy handed on keeping mine strictly on topic too. :p )
     
  4. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Women have to FOLLOW leaders of all different abilities and styles.. what's the difference?

    Yes, I know leading is hard. I have tried to learn both leading and following. Let me tell ya, following is no easy walk in the park either. As to which is harder. yes.. a topic for another thread.

    But being asked to accomodate is not the primary complaint... the issue is that we are expected to accommodate, and then we are blamed or expected to take all the responsibility for when things don't go as planned!

    So we're trying our best to help out by being accommodating, and we get trashed anyway.

    BTW - the fact that leading is hard is NO excuse for not being courteous to your partner. Most of us know it's hard. We aren't complaining that leaders make mistakes or have trouble.. we're complaining that so often leaders blame US for it or make us feel bad that it happened!

    It can't be had both ways... if we are better able to adapt while dancing because of some reason or other, and leaders have all they can handle because leading is hard, its' not reasonable to feel that things going wrong are probably the fault of the follower! Nor is it reasonable to blame her for not being able to adapt easily or quickly if leaders don't feel that they should have to adapt at all. That means he's being critical of her for not being able to do that which he is not able to do either!
     
  5. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    Oh there's a difference and I'm sure you know really.
    I have no idea how to start comparisons of relative difficulties,
    but I can tell you that it's the lady that gets the tangasm not the man.

    I don't have to realise (realize?) any such thing. You have to realise that
    you have the right to refuse a repeat of such behaviour. As far as I am concerned
    the leader is far more to blame. The better he is the easier it is for him to work
    around so-called mistakes. I like the concept that in tango there is no such thing
    as being on the wrong foot. It's taken quite a while to get fluent enough to make
    that a practicality and it's by no means perfect yet.


    Odd that! I always feel bad when it goes wrong.
    Actually these days, much less so as there's so many ways to get by.
    But no, he shouldn't complain (assuming you don't either!) and make you feel bad.


    I think you lost me - it's late. I'll take the blame . . . . .
     
  6. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I would only note that on the thread where men state their preferences women haven't come on an nit picked every man's preferences ad nauseaum...I think a good deal of what we are seeing on this thread is a certain amount of justifiable frustration with certain inabilities to both comprehend and respect the honest answers from the female perspective...yes, some of them may seem ambiguous to some men, but I would maintain that that is not solely reserved to the subject of dance...I think there are a number of ladies who have answered in good faith and had their answers picked to death beyond the scope of usefulness and have become notably annoyed...admittedly, a few of them may need to monitor themselves a bit :)...but the frustration is IMV, understandable
     
  7. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    But only if he makes her feel great! (getting back on topic and back to my original point) The tangasm only happens when he has a great attitude to go with his dancing

    Thank you for helping me with my original point! :D
     
  8. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Thank you.. that's pretty much what the ladies on this thread have been trying to say.
     
  9. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    The point I'm try to focus attention on is that there is a chasm between making her feel great and not complaining. Not complaining is easy. Making her feel great is tough and might require acting that goes beyond reality.

    If I give my partner the idea that the dance was great, I want her to know that the dance really was great, and that I'm not just trying to make her feel great. If I say to my partner after a tanda that I might as well just go home now, I want her to think I really mean it. I don't want her to think it's something I say to all the ladies.
     
  10. DL

    DL Well-Known Member


    Who knows, maybe you would put me in this category.

    Of course, I don't think of my dancing that way. I just try to dance with the best technique I can, doing my best to choose figures I can lead confidently and that I think my partner of the moment can follow, while staying on time and navigating the floor to avoid collisions or cutting off fellow leaders. Nonetheless, sometimes I really have a tough time leading some follows, to the point where we're not even making weight changes at the same time. In a case like that, it's not that I'm trying to show off technique and put her through paces. I'm making a good faith effort. But to really make her happy with the dance, might just take more skill and/or understanding than I've accumulated so far.

    It has been my experience that some ladies take for granted that I have skill to provide a comfortable dance, and are upset if I don't, and ascribe personal motivations to my failure.

    PS

    I never suggest -- nor do I here -- that a failure in such a case might be the fault of my partner. Nor do I complain, nor do I fail to thank my partner for the dance.

    PPS

    Then there are other ladies who consistently say that they enjoy dancing with me. So to answer whether a woman wants to dance with a specific man -- I think the answer is linked not only to properties of the specific man, but to properties of the woman, as well.
     
  11. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    It seems there is still some confusion about whether the dance has to be great for people to feel good at the end of the tanda. The dancing can be a disaster, but approached with a sense of humor and generosity, it doesn't have to be a bad experience.

    Haven't you ever laughed with the other person about a fooba that occurred? I've seen people actually go down in a heap and be able to laugh about it or joke later about it... what could possibly be more of a disaster during a tanda than falling on the floor? (well, not counting making some other couple hit the floor!)

    Also, there are more ways to be "complaining" than just verbally. And more ways to express dissatisfaction than just verbally.

    I think if a world famous leader can dance with a much lower level dancer and leave her feeling good, it's pretty clear that the attitude and the assessment of the partner's dancing or the relative "greatness" of the dance itself don't have to be tied together.

    Every time we mention something about making the partner feel good (or at least not making her feel bad) someone mentions that if the dance isn't good, then he'll have to pretend or act. That tells me that people are still determining whether or not they had a good time and whether they help the other person have a good time based primarily on the quality of one or both person's dancing.

    What I have been trying to say ad nauseum, that either is not getting through or there's just too much resistance to the whole concept of responsibility for one's own attitude, is that, again:

    The dance doesn't have to be wonderful for the experience to be wonderful

    I've said this over and over using way too many words, and frankly, I give up.
     
  12. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    here's the thing ...just because one puts forth an effort one doesn't feel doesn't mean it's fake...sometimes our affections take a break and the most loving noble thing one can do is to be kind and loving in the absence of feeling it...it isn't being fake, it is being selfless and transcendent...and, IMO, it is a sad day when people think an important part of authenticity is being candid about whatever affect they are currently lacking...emotions come and go...character is a decision...if that is being fake I gladly claim it...but frankly, I seek to be far better than the lowest feelings I experience
     
  13. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    You say this, but another lady says laments gents "more interested in putting the follow through her paces to see if she can be used to show off his fancy technique."

    Well, for the exact same gent, you and she might both agree the dance wasn't wonderful. You and she might disagree on whether the experience was wonderful.
     
  14. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    :notworth:

    Can I nick this for my siggy?
     
  15. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    No, not on the quality of their dancing, but on the partner focus of it.

    You've said your piece over and over again, while repeatedly putting your assumptions ahead of the actual concerns of the other side.

    Thus you get nowhere.
     
  16. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    OT

    A little late to the party, but j_a you owe me a martini that went up my nose when I read this ROTFL.

    Nothing like the sweet scent of eau d'roast beouf on a gorgeous nape to spice up the dancing.






    m
     
  17. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    As I interpret her post, she and I would agree that the experience WASN'T wonderful. In fact, as I interpret her post, she is in agreement that this sort of "testing" of the follower is annoying as heck and contrary to my stated preference. So I'm not sure why you chose her post as an example? :confused:
     
  18. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    How do you know it was the leader testing the follower? That's a subjective characterization. Please see also my post #210.

    http://dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=814811&postcount=210
     
  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    YOU said so!

    In post 213 which I quoted.. she laments the gent putting the follow through her paces to see if he could use her to show off! I'm responding to that! So yes, I assumed from YOUR statement that it was a leader putting the follower through her paces.
    SHeesh!
     
  20. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Edited because I violated some of my own rules for conduct :rolleyes:
     

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