Tango Argentino > The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Zoopsia59, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    I don't think you should automatically take all that on your account. Most of the time it is the situation on the floor that makes leaders tense and uncomfortable, then it could be unfamiliar music, bad night, something he ate beforehand...
    If the partner is wiggling too much the way you described I sometimes ask: "Are you OK? Is everything fine?" There might be something that is bothering him indeed, and if there is I can also suggest "Do you want to sit down?" . There is nothing wrong with that, he will see that I care, and perhaps we can try again in the future.
  2. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    I'm a little surprised that this seems to have gotten stuck on a bit of a charity vs. uncoditionally cheery axis, because in my mind that's a zero-sum game in which no one can win in a more than temporary sense.

    I don't think of encouraging what seem to me as nascent good dance habits by providing an opportunity to try them as charity, because its in my own interest that the community of good dancers grows. But I also don't think of enabling or reinforcing by practice what to me are bad dance habits as charity, because I believe they are in the long run harmful to all involved. Of course this is guided by my own opinion of which is which... but then its my time. Someone else is free to do as they see best with theirs.
  3. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Maybe we should clarify what we mean by "charity". I think it's generally thought to be a pejorative term, but is it always? If I dance with a woman who is just learning to dance, and my main reason for asking her is to support her efforts to learn, is that a charity dance? If I ever dance with a woman for any reason other than her ability to dance, is that charity?
  4. little hobo

    little hobo New Member

    So when did "Charity" become a pejorative concept?
  5. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    when humility became an outrage
  6. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Pejorative? Interesting. Charity is actually one of the Christian virtues. And like many of these virtues, a hard one to perform with a pure heart.

    The less experienced the partner the greater the charity. But it is easy to give the charity because you feel you should/you want to make yourself look good etc etc. No. Do it out of the fact that you care. Enjoy that person's company. If you then get pleasure out of the dance, then the reward is still the greater.
  7. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    No, of course, I'm not talking about faking it... I'm talking about someone who genuinely sees that they have a greater responsibility to the people they dance with than to their own ego and desires. As I said.. it's all about attitude.... approaching dance with an attitude of "How can I make this wonderful for the other person?" rather than "Will this other person make it wonderful for me?"

    In other words... a little less "It's all about ME, ME, ME!!!" and as (Ampster I think?) says "Its all about HER"
  8. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    When I hear "charity" used with regard to dancing tango, it often has a different connotation that when used in the Bible. Some of the followers above have indicated they did not want charity.

    But that is the question. If I'm doing it for the sake of the other dancer, what difference does my motivation make? There are many reasons to ask someone to dance, and only one of them is the quality of the dance.
  9. j_alexandra

    j_alexandra Well-Known Member

    BTW, welcome to the vocal, opinionated, and lively Dance Forums, Little Hobo!
  10. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Even if he leads simple things, if he does it in a rather bored, not-really-present way, it still makes her feel crappy. Its about being engaged with the person, whoever they are, and worrying less about yourself than about them.
  11. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Thank you.
  12. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Good one!
  13. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    yeah, better than I did too, and in a fraction of the words...
  14. bastet

    bastet Active Member

    I think people are operating within their own meaning of 'charity'. Most of the leads have responded fairly unanimously that 'charity' consists of anytime a person asks for or accepts a dance with someone below their level, regardless of intent.

    Whereas, if you go back and read through most followers responses, a dance is not automatically charity if the lead is more experienced than the follow (or vice versa, I imagine), but is based more on how the lead acts towards a follower during a dance that makes it charity.

    I think Zoopsia already summed it up nicely and it may seem totally unrelated to the original thread title, but is in fact, totally related to the "makes me feel good about myself" criteria- or at least "doesn't make me feel like $hit while dancing." :)
  15. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    For sure!
    I didn't feel at all like a "charity dance" when a very famous leader asked me to dance at a milonga. But I can tell that some of the leaders in my own community are giving me a "charity dance" because they feel they are above me.
  16. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Me too... unless they seem to be new to the event and clearly don't know people. Then I might approach them for a dance. (I got to dance an unforgettable tanda awhile back with someone that I thought might be a new beginner but who turned out to be a visitor who was the organizer in his community and a teacher at regional festivals!)
  17. DerekWeb

    DerekWeb Well-Known Member

    If a good conversationalist talks to an introvert, that is charity? If I help a co worker, that is charity? Kind of lowers the bar for charity doesn't it? Now, I am not saying we all have to be mother Teresa, but human kindness and humility are virtues, and accepting them is no vice.
  18. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I can only speak for my own use of the term... If someone better than I dances with me to support my effort to learn, it's not a "charity-dance". If someone dances with me because they feel they HAVE to or SHOULD, then it is.

    If someone dances with me and thinks of it as "doing me a favor" when they are not above my level, then that's the most annoying type of "charity-dance", although sometimes it's not obvious until later that they felt that way.
  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    If you have a feeling of being superior when you "give", then its not going to make the other person feel very good (especially if you AREN'T superior!). Charity can always be done without condescension. There's a huge difference between the 2, but for many, their charity dances go hand in hand with being superior, patronizing or condescending.

    Really, this isn't such a vague concept... its no different from any other type of Charity. Being generous and being patronizing aren't the same, whether you are helping inner city low income families or dancing a tanda. The term "charity dance" is often used to imply a certain attitude towards the other person which goes against the whole "make the other person feel fabulous" theme.

    Yes, it's a misuse of the term "Charity" which is about genuine generosity, but are people really confused that this term is being used, or are they just trying to nitpick and argue semantics?

    I didn't invent the term. I'd be happy to use another if someone can supply one to replace "charity dance.
  20. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    the root word for charity is caritas....if there is no caring, it isn't charity...it is something else

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