Swing Discussion Boards > to tap or not to tap (Hustle)

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by opendoor, Nov 27, 2010.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    My problem (if it is one anyway):

    My dancepartner wants to do a DiscoFox workshop. DiscoFox is the european varity of Hustle and very popular here. I have never learned this dance, but danced it occasionally at parties, balls, family celebrations, and country folk events.

    As a preparation for that workshop I began to watch YT vids and came across, that all famous couples do 4 steps (we call it hustling) instead of three per measure as I do. But I find 4 steps absolutely exaggerated and uncool for a guy.

    So can you tell me,
    -if there are prominent dancers around that still use 3 steps?

    -How is that 3-step Hussle style called (street? bar? sling? Disco?)

    -Why did it fall into oblivion?

    I cannot be down to the fact that official NY-style Hustle can generate more speed and drive, b.c I can dance as dynamicly with 3 than with 4 steps.

    Thanks in advance to help me in preservating an endangered style :D

  2. DerekWeb

    DerekWeb Well-Known Member

  3. Dancelf

    Dancelf Member

    Vocabulary check? I've never heard of a three steps per measure hustle; the hustle variants with which I am familiar use more than four steps per measure - four steps per three beats in a four beat meaure, or eight steps in six beats (one and a half measures) if you prefer to think of it that way.

    Are you talking about one-two-tap vs one-two-andthree ?
  4. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    oh sorry, turns out that besides vacabulary I´ve got a mathematical problem :eek:

    Yes I meant one-two-tap

    and this makes makes four steps evenly for four counts ....

    Thanks Dancelf
  5. atk

    atk Active Member

    The way i learned it, there are 3 different counts for hustle.

    *Club style, where you step on every beat, cointing 1 2 3 4.
    *one basic where you tap for one beat, step one beat, then step one beat. You have three steps, usong a total of three beats, even though he music has four beats per measure.
    * a syncopated version where you step & 1 2 3. The & 1 is a rock step, taking te place of the tap feom he above count.

    The second and third basics are completely interchangeable, though the non-syncopated version is a little less busy and can make it easier to think while dancing. Masculinity is all presentation- either can look masculine or effeminite, as you wish to present it.
  6. DerekWeb

    DerekWeb Well-Known Member

    NY Style

    NY Style Hustle is all "and 1 2 3. Four steps across 3 quarter notes.

    search "madjam hustle" on youtube
  7. Warren J. Dew

    Warren J. Dew Well-Known Member

    When you do three steps per three beats, is the lady still doing four steps per three beats?

    If so, I call that style the "let the lady do the work" style. I use it when I get winded and want to rest, but my partner is still going strong.
  8. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

  9. Warren J. Dew

    Warren J. Dew Well-Known Member

  10. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    oh it turns out to be complicated. My original question only was a styling question:

    why not step-step-tap on three single beats instead of step-step-step-n-step. In either case a sequence of 3 respectively 4 steps runs over the same three beats of a 4/4 measure.
  11. Warren J. Dew

    Warren J. Dew Well-Known Member

    When I dance hustle, I will sometimes do step-coast-er-step, 12&3, four steps over three beats, and sometimes do step-step-tap, 123, three steps over three beats, depending on how much energy I have.

    In either case, I am still leading the lady to do 12&3 with a coaster step, four steps over three beats, even when I'm only doing three steps to her four.
  12. Gorme

    Gorme Active Member

    There is a variant that is done in some of the Chinese communities where they do "step-step-tap". It's called Chinese Jitterbug. It's not hustle, nor is it Swing. It feels like a someone tried to learn single step swing and ended up with this variant.
  13. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Ok, I understand :notworth:
  14. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Its correct name.. it appeared much later after Latin Hustle, which does have the " tap " in its basic count .
  15. tsb

    tsb Well-Known Member

    i am of the &1 2 3 school of timing, (1 2 &3 to me is like beta-max - you've heard of it, but more than slightly surprised when you actually find one that works as the phrasing never feels right to me). either way, the issue as i understand it is whether to substitute a tap (no shift of weight)-step for the syncopated (rock) step. this stylistic variation can also be found in WCS by replacing a triple/coaster step with a tap-step footing. tapping looks smoother as a lead, but given that the shifts of weight make it easier for a follow to discern the footing at any given moment and that it's possible to do the footwork without a lot of visually discernable movement, AND i can actually move if i need to while i can't when i tap, i tend to reserve tapping for when i'm being lazy or dancing with a follow who doesn't necessarily need the additional clarity of those weight shifts in my lead to be able to follow smoothly.
  16. dancin/dj

    dancin/dj Member

    thats not true at all i did ny hustle for 10 years, i now teach a four count hustle 1234 5678 thats musical &123 is not, if you want me to prove it when the times right if were at the same dance i show you, but i warn you i've been a musican for 35 years- i dont want to fight but but i can prove it to Anyone, ny hustle is the only dance i know (i do about 10 dance""s) and teach dance all 10, ny hustle is the ONLY one that is not musical and out of time with the music(unless its very slow music) & 123 looks terrible med and fast danced, im not the only who knows this david flynn from maryland teaches 4 count a few people in ny do a 4 count and watch any young girl anywhere do a a club hustle who is not ny style trained
  17. dancin/dj

    dancin/dj Member

    see how popular ny style hustle is, no one really cares, thats cool though i teach nuwave hustle & hope the young come aboard, cause the other one died they just dont know it- it died because of the Bad attuides with there leaders and NOT bringing in the young people like all the other dances do. if ya doubt what i say look into how 2 hustle congress were in NY CITY this sept on the same night!
  18. rbazsz

    rbazsz New Member

    I have been taking lessons in Hustle Nouveau. Is that the same as nuwave style?
  19. dancin/dj

    dancin/dj Member

    Hello, im not sure what that is Hustle Nouveau,its french no? if you do a 4 count then its a match, but whatever you do( nouveau) i hope its a 4 count .because like i wrote i teach dance and taught music(quitar-bass-vocals) this & 123 is not musical (unless its really slow music) and they are way behind the times in the sense that dance has progressed with salsa, wc swing,c 2 step, ballroom, not so with this dance (of course there are some &123 dancers who look good,im not saying that) Please let me know where i can see your style hustle, thanks
  20. drejenpha

    drejenpha Member

    I think the two aren't necessarily any different, just different ways of counting it. My ballroom teacher learned hustle as 1 2&3 in the Detroit style (Forward, Back, Close, Forward) and I never had any issue dancing &1 2 3 with a rock step while I danced with her... it kept me more honest on my rock step by starting forward on 2 rather than trying to quickly hit an & and landing on 1 instead when starting.

    Edit: I realized after posting that I was a bit confused... I agree with tsb, if you actually start 12&3 on the 1 of the phrase it just doesn't feel right. I was omitting the opening rock and just dancing &123, regardless of how my follow was counting it.

    &123 hustle is musical, it doesn't line up with traditional 8 or 16 bar phrasing if you strip it to figures with &123 timing, but it picks up a certain energy moving across the phrase. It might be harder to make a quicker rock look good but you never get to hit any syncopated accents if you only dance on the beats.

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