Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by NewMantoDancing, Aug 8, 2013.
sigh...is it a full moon?
seriously...what century are we in? what country?
Social Dancer, I don't find your thoughts on this so profound that it deserves its own separate thread.
nor particularly prudent...so I will be merging them
Social Dancer, now that Fascination has merged your thread to its proper place on this forum, let me respond to your points.
First, let me say that I don't have a fundamental disagreement with your approach. Just wondering why all that is necessary. To me, "social dancing" is being social which involves dancing with a number of women, not one exclusively. If a woman wants to dance while her husband does "manly" things like watching sports, then she'll show up at a public dance venue and I'll add her to my rotation along with the other ladies I dance with. No need for complex negotiations.
As far as dancing with accompanied women, I have done that. Usually later in the evening or otherwise after giving her husband/whatever a chance to observe that I'm not chasing skirts. And watch for any signals that my invitation to dance is unwelcome and back off. No need for complex negotiations.
it sounds as if he is referring to establishing some sort of partnership for the purpose of social dancing...and, from where I sit, Dr. Dance has a far better take on it
I was talking about when a man is going to dance, practice, or take lessons every week with another man's wife. To a lesser degree some of this applies to going out for a weekend, or even just an evening of dancing, but the real point I intended to make was that everyone should have their own set of rules that they should live by so that something unexpected doesn't pop up that might cause a problem in someone's marriage.
I asked that others give their rules to us so that we could all think about if rules are important or if each of us
wants to have any rules at all.
I find it interesting that some folks are very quick to condemn, but very slow to give their own thoughts as
what rules they feel they should follow.
We have one man telling us what a thousand other men don't have the guts to tell us. He is not entirely comfortable with his wife dancing with other men.
My rules were designed to make darn sure that I do nothing that will harm my partner's relationship with
her husband. Perhaps I went a little too far but I would rather go to far,, than take a chance of breaking up
a good marriage.
Perhaps others have far better ways of accomplishing the same goal. I just wish that every one would give
it a little thought.
Social Dancer, Fascination pointed out Dr Dance's post:
There you have it. Simple for you, just let her do the negotiating -- and behave like a perfect gentleman.
My husband and I trusted each completely, so was no need for rules other than the obvious. I guess I'm lucky.
here it the thing...I think there is some merit in having boundaries...some of them even the ones social dancer has noted...I think it is wise that partners do the best they can to keep boundaries, not create near occasions of intimacy, etc...
what others are condemning (your word, not mine) is the notion that you have all the power to keep someone else's marriage okay...that it is a gentleman's agreement between you and the ladies' spouse which is what keeps the thing from going south...it is very dismissive of the competency of the woman to take care of her own affairs...pun intended
What fasc said. "I will have your wife home by 11," etc. Like hell.
Sounds like Gentlemen's agreement to take someone’s dancing wife for a “play date” – be home by 11!
Most socials run until midnight.
He didn't say anything about how he treats his partners. A lot of people seem to be taking offense at their own assumptions here.
that he feels it is between himself and the woman's husband to figure out how to have an amicable agreement IS a poor treatment of his partner...it does in fact imply that she is the property of her husband or at least that she cannot navigate her own relationship on her own
Just popping my head above the parapet here...
Like the ladies before me, I must say this does rather sound like play date mentality.
And if someone is calling my (fictitious) husband to ask his permission to dance with me that's treating me like a child. But then again I wouldn't find myself in that scenario because I wouldn't be giving his number out to people anyway. Repeatedly referring to 'women' as 'other people's wives' screams of something I don't have time for.
Let's make this clear: Who I dance with is my business, my relationship is my business and it sure as hell isn't the business of anyone who isn't my partner. Once we get into third party stuff that doesn't really include me in the picture I'm out.
I'm learning AT and we're not aware of each others' marital statuses aside from the married couple who volunteered that information. In all my time in class that part of my life has never been the topic of conversation and I've never thought to ask any of my partners. Funnily enough we just concentrate on the dancing.
That being said, I do like the occasional play date - the terms and conditions of which are already perfectly clear seeing as I'm in a monogamous relationship...
And what fascination says.
Doesn't a man have a right to protect his reputation or his life? If you don't think it is any of your husband's
business what you do that is between you and him.
However, I want to have the cards out on the table. If you have a jealous husband, of if he has a reason
to be jealous, I want to know about it. (A lot of men have been shot dead because a jealous husband
thought they were doing something that they were not doing.)
Sorry ladies but a man has a right to know that you are not going to get him beaten up.
I don't know what kind of reputation you have. Nobody is forcing you to let your husband and
your dance partner know what is going on when the other guy is around. You can keep your husband
in the dark and you can find a dance partner who doesn't care what your husband thinks or feels.
But that partner is not going to be me and it looks like we are both happy that it isn't going to be me.
I have never, and I will never do anything behind a dance partners back.
If you are afraid to walk out in the parking lot why shouldn't I be afraid of a husband who I am not allowed to
meet or even speak to?
Speaking of gentlemen's (used loosely) agreements, we did have a guy try to use our class to match up swingers for his (his words from his craigslist ad) "Sweet, young, lively Asian wife" who "was finally ready to explore"- some things I don't want to write here. Or think about. Ever. It was something we were unaware of at the time- we thought that he didn't care about dancing, she wanted to, so she came to class. Well, he was scoping out potential ... clients, I guess? Unless it was free, then I'm not sure what to call it... for his wife, which he'd bought online.
I'm sorry you worry that you're going to be shot by theoretical jealous husbands. That's not so much of a problem here in the UK.
I was under the impression that "the real point I intended to make was that everyone should have their own set of rules that they should live by so that something unexpected doesn't pop up that might cause a problem in someone's marriage" which was the main thrust of my response above - that relationships are the responsibility of the two people in them and no one else.
However, I'm going to respond to the points you've just made, which seem to have more to do with protecting yourself and not other peoples' marriages. By the way who said I'm "afraid to walk out in the parking lot?" You're welcome to meet my (fictitious) husband but if you ask his permission for anything regarding me we're gonna laugh your patriarchal self out of the room. I can say this with certainty as my partner is reading this whole thing over my shoulder and the only word decent enough for repetition is 'ridiculous'. In fact if someone asked me for our home number to talk to my husband with lots of conditions we'd believe it to be a case of protesting too much… - as I type this Hedwaite's just beaten me to it!
So dancing is now an adulterous/sexual thing? Language like "in the dark" and "behind a dance partners back" makes me wonder… Are you a jealous partner? If your wife wanted to dance with someone else would you require the same conditions you set for yourself and why? I have two theories:
1) You've had some bad experience with jealous, non-dancing partners / psychopathic women who "get [you] beaten up" and you're protecting yourself against future recriminations.
2) You're so hot there's no way a husband would believe you're 'only dancing' with his wife. In which case, can you post some pics of yourself?
It's weird, but we're noticing here just how different "a ballroom social event" really IS from "a normal people social event". At a ballroom event, people behave differently than a normal event, and I've given humanity too much credit for awhile, wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt on certain things here and there, but when beer and Dierks Bentley is involved, it becomes too clear just what people really are like versus what ballroom dancers are in an element focused more on dancing than socializing. I hope this makes sense, but when we go to fundraisers, parties, etc. where it's "people milling around PLUS dancing" versus "a dance event where civilians are also invited", there's a BIG difference, and only recently have we really realized how much we've changed and adapted in regards to sloughing the old world and embracing the new. Yes, that sounds superior. I want to apologize for it, but I can't do so sincerely.
if a guy is of the sort to shoot you dead, your list won't matter
if you can't trust her to be honest with you, you already have a big problem...if she tells you it's fine, that should be good enough unless you have reason not to believe her, in which case you really don't need to take it further anyhow
except that, in your rules (IIRC) you stated you'd be willing to have a conversation with him that she didn't know about
you can be as afraid as you want...if you have some reason not to trust, from her, that her husband isn't a murderous maniac, just don't dance with her...and there is a big difference between her saying she will handle him herself and her going to pains to keep you from meeting him...the solution certainly isn't to leave her out of the loop and try to bond with him to keep him from killing you...do you realize how silly that sounds?...fact is, I am ready to smack myself for even trying to reason with that
the "leaving a venue alone" comment is on another thread...and has nothing to do with this....it is about why women get nervous when a guys gets too physical or flirtatous....let's keep the topics to the thread they are in
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