Ballroom Dance > USA Dance Professional Division

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by JudeMorrigan, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    So, Glenn Weiss' President's Message contained the following:

    Frankly, it's been pretty clear for a while now that the organization was trending towards this decision. There are good reasons for it, not the least of which being that they really do need a pipeline to produce new judges in the long term.

    But I also can't help but be a bit sad. As I see it, this pretty much cements a future where there are top American pros who never compete against each other. I'd like to think that someday, WDC and WDSF will bury the hatchet and we'll have some sort of a Superbowl/World Series sort of deal where the best dancers from both organizations compete for at least one competition. I have to think that that'll be a long time coming though.

    I also have to think this is going to lead to USAD trying to make their T/S events a more direct competitor for pro-am than they really are currently. It'd take some time to build the fields up to a critical mass, but I really wonder what sort of impact that's going to have on both organizations.
    middy, FancyFeet, Borazine and 2 others like this.
  2. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    Plans and operational realities are often two very different things.
    ajiboyet and Rhythmdancer like this.
  3. dlliba10

    dlliba10 Well-Known Member

    I'm not going to come down on one side or another re: a USAD PD, but as far as I can see, the reality is that if this USAD PD gets off the ground, it's the final nail in the coffin and there will be two very distinct, very discrete organizations in the US -- two different pro pools, two different student pools for Teacher/Student, two different competition calendars, etc. It's already happening on the amateur level -- all the couples that used to compete both NDCA and USAD are now mostly firmly on one side or another, save for a few couples who, I'm glad, do decently well in both because their dancing is good. I do share Jude's wish for a burying of the hatchet, even at the NDCA/USAD level, let alone WDC/WDSF, but until then, the schism will get wider and wider.
    Miss Silly, Sania and Bailamosdance like this.
  4. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    As an am am I dance USA dance. In pro am I dance Ndca. That won't change for me
    s2k and Loki like this.
  5. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    NDCA has restricted their judges from participation in non-NDCA-sanctioned events. Has NDCA restricted anyone in other roles? Aren't professional instructors allowed to participate in both NDCA pro-am and USAD teacher-student?
  6. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    As far as I know, there are no restrictions now. I had planned on doing a USAD competition with my (NDCA) pro before I decided it didn't make sense for me financially.
  7. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    From the student side I'm sure there won't be restrictions. It remains to be seen with regard to the pros. Could be a big restraint this trade issue for whomever tries to impose restrictions
    Sania likes this.
  8. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    Why would restricting pros be a restraint-of-trade issue when it wasn't a factor in the restriction of judges?
    Bailamosdance likes this.
  9. Bailamosdance

    Bailamosdance Well-Known Member

    USA Dance wonders why it is not taken seriously... 'restraint-of-trade lol
  10. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    AFAIK USA Dance isn't restricting or restraining anyone...
    Mr 4 styles likes this.
  11. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Yes, and yes. NDCA has restricted any ballroom professional from serving in USA Dance competitions—note that the category "ballroom professional" encompasses more than just dancers.
  12. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    From the NDCA rulebook on page 2:
    Adjudicators, Scrutineers and other officials, to include but not limited to MC's, Music Directors,
    Registrars, Competition Organizers, etc, who choose to register with the NDCA are not permitted to
    officiate at or organize any Championship, Multi-Day Competition, or Local One-Day Event that is not
    sanctioned by the NDCA or other recognized organizations​

    The term "ballroom professional" is not used here, nor does a text search of the rulebook turn it up elsewhere.

    Therefore I believe that professional competitors are NOT prohibited by the NDCA from participating in competitions sanctioned by other organizations. If you can point to a specific rule that does that, please point to it.
  13. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    For now they aren't...... maybe
  14. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    You'll note that I used the term ballroom professional, not ballroom competitor...
  15. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    If you would reread my post, perhaps you would note that I noted your use of "ballroom professional".
  16. jump'n'jive

    jump'n'jive Well-Known Member

    So will there be pro divisions at USA dance events?
  17. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Maybe we should replace freedom to dance with freedom to choose. Potentially if there are more choices, there are more opportunities. It will then be the choice of the organization if they wish to limit choices for dancers, professionals, or adjudicators.
    Mr 4 styles likes this.
  18. s2k

    s2k Well-Known Member

    So I'm aware of two USAD amateur championship dancers who turned pro (over the past several years) - and they went to NDCA. If you're trying to make a living as a pro, NDCA comps are a way to help you do that. Teacher's Pot of Gold, Top Teacher, there's a percentage of package fees you can tack on to your students' packages, etc.

    I'm aware of one professional amateur couple who dances only for USAD - but they own a studio and that studio caters to kids who dance USAD. So that makes sense to me. They are performing where their students are.

    What inducements will there be for pros to choose USAD over NDCA? When Champ couples turn pro (and some do) how will USAD convince them to stay with the organization?
    Bailamosdance likes this.
  19. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    And you'll note that I never claimed the NDCA rule specifically referred to the term "ballroom professional."
  20. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    I don't know if WDSF (USAD) PD couples are allowed to dance WDC (NDCA) events, but if not, that could be one point.

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