General Dance Discussion > Weirdo radar?

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by DanceMentor, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    We also talked about what the studio should do about it. I don't see how refusing to talk about how women can help themselves would change the fact that some men are creeps. And sure, we can tell men not to be creeps, but how often do you think that really works?
     
  2. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    well precisely...I get rels point...but no one on this forum would ever dare suggest that the women are at fault for being recipients of creepiness...but to say that they need to be encouraged to be strong enough to discourage creeps and to report on behalf of other women is a totally different matter...at at least for myself, I noted the caveat that some women are too vulnerable to do that and may need help with these things.....but there are really only a few ways to stop a jerk....you can tell them to stop, you can have someone else tell them to stop, and if those fail, you can actively seek out someone with power to remove them....or you can remove yourself....may not be fair, but my experiences with jerks is that they don't change....hence the term
     
  3. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    I suppose an anonymous note might be effective. I was thinking maybe I could get a disposable email address and send the studio a message just letting him know that I have suspicions that I cannot confirm but tell them the name of the person and maybe they will keep an eye out. Does that sound weird to do something like that?
     
  4. FancyFeet

    FancyFeet Well-Known Member

    Personally, I'd give less weight to something that arrived anonymously. Even it was 'hey, so someone I'd prefer to not identify mentioned x...', I'd take it more seriously.
     
  5. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    agree...I give very little credence to anything that someone is unwilling to own
     
    Cal likes this.
  6. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Well, I guess I'll continue to keep an eye out. Honestly I can't say for sure at this point
     
  7. MintyMe

    MintyMe Member

    Ha, that's funny. My experience as a young, attractive woman is that when I was harassed and subsequently stalked by a "nice guy" predator from a group class, the older female attitude was "it's your own fault".

    Then the women closed ranks around HIM, and *I* was asked not to attend classes because *I* was upsetting him. To the women in class, this older, single man (twice my age, and closer to theirs) was much more desirable to have in class than a younger woman.

    Another time at a social dance, a creepy old man was video taping me and when I brought it up to the dance hostess, I was told "meh, too bad for you. It's because you're good looking so what do you expect?"

    Right.
     
  8. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    You can get away with that if her weirdo radar isn't working.
     
  9. Generalist

    Generalist Active Member

    At the risk of sounding like a devil's advocate: I have read just about every comment on this long string Not once has anyone suggested that in many cases women might be overly sensitive.

    I have actually had a few women who got disambiguated when I started a WCS dance in a typical closed position. They reacted as though I was trying to abuse them because I had the nerve to touch their hand and the back of their shoulder blade; and even more egregious I had the gall to move within 12" of their sacred body. Sheesh! It kind of makes me wonder if these women ever figured out that "partner dancing" means that men and women will come into physical contact with each other.

    While I have no doubt that an occasional perv wanders into a studio, the women at the ones I dance at won't put up with him for long. There is an enforcement network that keeps us guys very well behaved. The pervs quickly get bored because nobody will dance with them so they leave. And if that doesn't work they will be promptly escorted out by the studio owners. Problem solved!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  10. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    They're the weirdos here.
    With hindsight, do you now recognize them quicker?
     
  11. stash

    stash Well-Known Member

    I believe most of us are not overly sensitive. And by stating that you are sweeping an entire issue under the rug. Smaller communities have an easier time weeding out pervs just for the reason it's a much tighter knit community. In larger communities, where not everyone knows everyone, weeding out the bad eggs can prove to be a lot more difficult.

    I think most women in partner dancing know that partner dancing involves touching, and again suggesting otherwise is pretty ignorant about the point of this conversation. Touching a woman does not make you creepy. But how you touch her, how you look at her, how you talk to her, can send off vibes. And sure, we can read those vibes wrong sometimes, but we shouldn't be blamed for being uncomfortable when someone touches us inappropriate when it clearly wasn't an accident, or continues to harass us.

    This reasoning from men is why more women don't stand up for themselves. Because if our word can't be trusted, why bother. Sure maybe a few women overreact. But enough women in this thread, including myself, have been put in situations at socials where we feel uncomfortable, and some women quit because of this issue. It is a real problem. And blaming US for being "OVERLY SENSITIVE" discounts any of our experiences that are real.
     
  12. FancyFeet

    FancyFeet Well-Known Member

    Also, it's the follow that gets to set the distance. If she sets up with space and you try to pull her closer, well, expect to labelled as either a jerk or a perv and for word to get around.
     
    raindance, fascination and stash like this.
  13. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    Overly sensitive? We get to decide what we're comfortable with, not you. Women who have been dancing any length of time know about closed position. So the women in your scenario are either very new to dance and haven't learned it yet, or you are somehow making them uncomfortable and they don't want to get that close to you.
     
    IndyLady, raindance and stash like this.
  14. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    I've heard this idea batted around a few times on the board, and I have a very slight disagreement. It was explained differently to me back when I was starting. As I was taught, the lead sets their minimum distance and then the follow sets a distance that's no closer than the lead's invitation. That is, if I were dancing with you, I'd invite you in in a way that would say "you're welcome to a full body-contact frame if you want one". There are other ladies I'd very much prefer to keep at arms length, and I invite them in differently.

    Basically, I consider it both partners' responsibility to make sure they aren't getting closer than the other finds comfortable.

    (Of course, I fully imagine that guys who don't respect boundaries are a worse issue due to the combination of physiological and societal factors. But ladies who don't aren't great either.)
     
    j_alexandra, raindance and twnkltoz like this.
  15. FancyFeet

    FancyFeet Well-Known Member

    True. Blame my lack of specificity on insufficient caffeine for a Monday morning.

    (And awwww, now I feel special!)
     
    j_alexandra and stash like this.
  16. stash

    stash Well-Known Member

    Lack of caffeine is never a good thing. (says the caffeine junkie). I feel you FF.
     
  17. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I have ballroom danced for over 10 years and never had a man touch my hair....shrug...and if I had a man (not my instructor or husband)decide how far away from him I was going to dance, unless it was the farthest of all the options, we would have a problem. I simply wouldn't stick around long enough to find out whether or not he was a perv.....
     
  18. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    lastly, and perhaps most importantly, what some men may not get...but SHOULD.... is that almost every woman has had a man who maybe at first seemed nice enough, then attempted to get inappropriate with them, or who persisted far beyond when he should have, or was frightening in some way....so try not to take it so personally when a woman reacts fearfully....try to respect it....because you have no idea what they have been through
     
  19. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    That's a lot of assumptions, and they would all need to be true to make the conclusion correct.
     
    danceronice likes this.
  20. RiseNFall

    RiseNFall Well-Known Member

    Generalist was talking about WCS. IF you are dancing with a follower who has always started WCS in an open position and started with, say, a sugar push, yeah, they are going to be taken aback by starting in a closed hold.
     
    ocean-daughter and stash like this.

Share This Page