Salsa > What’s WRONG with salsa?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by SDsalsaguy, Mar 24, 2004.

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  1. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    i'll try red silk boxers next time and test that theory..
  2. RumbaRumbera

    RumbaRumbera New Member

    Although you disagree on a few points, you get it because you have the wisdom of your years and maybe a little more education than most. All those who responded with objections prove my point that there is little understanding of Latino culture and instead, a whole lot of misconceptions and stereotypes. No one has responded in a substantive manner to the essence of my argument, that salsa has become more rooted in “Hollywood” values than the Latino culture from whence it originated. BTW, I'm RumbaRumbera, a female.
  3. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    something tells me you don't sit by the wayside much anyway, red boxers or not...
  4. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    Picture ... please!
  5. RumbaRumbera

    RumbaRumbera New Member

    You just don't like Latino/as.
  6. dance234

    dance234 New Member

    :eyebrow:Yeah. That's definitely what I got out of that post too.
  7. noobster

    noobster Member


    No se los alimenten a los trolls, people.
  8. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    fwiw, the latino culture is alive and well in jersey, and i find the men generally very gracious & classy and nothing declasse about the ladies. as for hollywood... i know nothing about your local vibe and so wouldn't deign to comment on that.
  9. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    A sleaze or a show off is one no matter which culture one comes from. THeir are certain traditions that are common such as the way one asks for dances in Argentine tango. Similarly many latinos come from a culture where a lady does not ask. Forget about latinos as I know many ladies from other cultures, who don't think it is right to ask for a dance.

    I have a couple people who ask me and I'll always accept. It does not matter how out of it I am. Reason? They smile and have a good time. They make eye contact. I canot help but want to show them a good time and in the process I'm always happier at the end of the dance. One dresses in pretty rough clothes and dances barefoot, but that does not matter.
  10. RumbaRumbera

    RumbaRumbera New Member

    Estás equivocado/a. Su manera es bien sútil, pero la que es la troll aquí es "Brownskin818."
  11. noobster

    noobster Member

    No entiendo, perdon. Me parece a mi que ella te ha ofrecido unos consejos bien razonables, ?o hay algo que me eluda?
  12. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    no, i agree & think you're spot-on, noobs...
  13. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    ** mod alert - you might want to kill this post. feel welcome to it. i won't delete it myself **

    i'm going to call out a very rude behavior here, and i'm going to ask if this rudeness is coming from latino culture, or is it just these specific players (some that i willl call out by name). i'm really only interested in hearing from these folks - either say that you are being rude and stop being that, or just toss the hot potato and blame the latino culture.

    the behavior in question is this - since when did it become acceptable to have a conversation in a non-common language (spanish) among folks who don't all understand that language. I for one would like to say, no entiendo, perdon!! - i don't understand spanish.

    Now, in my experience with a few groups of latino folks that I know (teachers, random acquaintances), I seem to be hitting this wall all the time. That they are talking with one another in spanish despite the fact that they have an individual (me) hanging out with them that can't follow their language. They would still talk to me in English, but talk in Spanish amongst themselves oftentimes, which makes me feel like being left out. I think it's rude behavior.

    Now thus far, I've just attributed it as a bad attitude on part of the specific people and not latinos in general. Here, we have a thread about latino culture, and some of those who are expounding the said culture are also, unequivocally, acting rude (by having a spanish conversation - and please, don't blame the one who started. if you perpetuated the conversation in spanish, you might not want to point fingers). So I'm forced to conclude that something is amiss in the latino culture (so i might as well assume that whatever it is that you are glorifying is suspect and avoid it), or those who are calling out the merits of decorous behavior just don't know how to act politely themselves and have no locus standi to be preaching here.
  14. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    not latino behaviour. my pro & one of his students/one of my friends converse in slovak/czech in front of me all the time. my friend is the one that initiates it, and she will continue it even when i let her know i'm on the outside of the conversation.

    sometimes i'll speak greek in passing in front of others who don't understand, but i would never remain in the language unless i were speaking to someone who didn't speak english.

    as an aside... i know a salsa friend who speaks both greek & spanish, and we've spoken our own merging of the two languages, which is actually very fun... mixing verbs from one language & adjectives from another. what a hoot...
  15. Don Silver

    Don Silver Member

    Many of us don't respond directly because I suspect there is little I could say that would change your mind. Your perspective is different from mine (and some others) and I respect your views even if I disagree with some of them. (I am old enough not to argue with people who have made up their mind on a specific subject.)

    A couple points from my point of view:

    1) It will never go back to the way it was 10 years ago or even 3 years ago. Salsa, music, movies, dancing and other arts are evolving constantly and I don't always like the direction. Moving forward Salsa will be influenced by hip-hop, ballroom, international and many other dances, as newer blood is drawn into the scene. My Mom thought rock and roll was ruining us kids, (well, it did in my case), but most of my peers did just fine.

    2) Some people make a decision to bloom where they are planted. At some clubs the culture you seek will not be there or will be there now but may not be in the future. If I want "all salsa, all night", I have to support the clubs which support that format, otherwise those clubs will start playing polkas or hip-hop all night if enough people enjoy that exclusively.

    This won’t be news to you , but life changes, and I don’t love every change I see, so I support the clubs which fit my likes and don’t support those where I don’t fit. Hopefully, my likes will match enough others (or I can find those people) otherwise I have to simply start playing poker or take up ballroom dancing where tradition is heavily valued. Salsa is a relatively young dance, but even ballet dancing has changed over the years, incorporating many modern influences while still retaining most of it's roots.

    I still suspect nothing I say will change your mind as you hold very strong opinions. (Nothing wrong with that, I’m in that camp myself.)

    For example: I never see a woman as desperate if she asks me to dance, even though 90% of the time I will ask. I have an ego just like other guys, and I suspect your ego is enhanced when a quality gentleman asks you to dance, and then asks you again, which validates he enjoyed the first dance.

    If a lady asks me to dance, as a rule I’ll ask her in the future most of the time. As a guy, you never really know if a woman enjoys dancing with you or she is simply being nice.

    I doubt you say negative things to partners, even if they are not your favorite dancers. Most women will fake a good time with me, and they did it when I was a beginner, so it’s difficult to tell if they really enjoyed my lead. There is no way they did in the early days, and I’m still a work in progress so some feedback is helpful. Frankly, if you are faking a good time with me, I’d rather ask someone else, looking for partners that truly enjoy my lead and are excited to dance with me.

    I think your point of view is valuable, and being a guy, I will probably never understand all of your points. It’s great to see as much as possible through your eyes but it’s also clear that many others see things differently.

    In my mind, that’s what makes things like this forum great!
  16. noobster

    noobster Member

    I recognize that this is considered rude in face-to-face conversation (although I am not myself offended when I am on the outside of it, as I know how difficult it is to keep from slipping into another language when both of you are familiar with it).

    But I see it on message boards all the time and never considered it rude. The internet is an open forum, and people speak in hundreds of different languages. I've no idea who may or may not be reading this message, and it doesn't seem reasonable to constrain the language of a post that is not directed at you, just because you might happen along and not be able to read it. No?

    Greek and Spanish are really hard to keep apart, I've found. I have several relatives and one friend who speak both, and after five minutes I don't think anybody even notices how much of each sentence is happening in each language. I think it is because the accents and intonations are so similar. When you throw an English word into a Greek or Spanish conversation you have to change your pronunciation completely; but Greek and Spanish just slip right into each other.

    Entonces pote vamos na xorepsoume en la ciudad samina;
    Tenemos na gnwristoume apo konta antes fygw pa' California! :D

    (Let's see if anybody else around here picks up *that* mishmash, heh heh heh)
  17. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    I know. The point was that you can't generalize based on limited data points. i haven't enough experience with tons of latinos to blame them as a 'class' for bad behavior. R/R hasn't done enough mind-reading of all skimpily clad women and the men who ask them (exclusively or not) to know that they are all depraved. And we don't have enough analysis and data to prove that Hollywood-in-LA=bad and Latino-Culture=good (If this were true, then NY-style/On2 would be instantly deemed "better" than LA-Style/On1!!). The generalizations are all silly, but we already have the beginnings of a flamewar on the basis of these generalizations.
  18. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    LOL... exactly! LOL they blend so seemlessly... who knew??? lol

    lipon, cuando pas sto california? definitely quiero na xorepsoume! :D
  19. noobster

    noobster Member

    Dystyxws me voy pronto :(
    Feugw la semana que viene! pros to paron vivo con mis goneis en NJ, entonces ligo mas cerca se sena :)
    Pero nomizw oti te encuentres akoma lejos de mi, eimaste poly cerca stin poli. Yo akoma me salgo en NY gia xoro por la noche. ?Esy donde bgaineis gia salsa en NJ?

    Sorry quixotedlm... but this is too fun. :) Don't worry, we're not saying anything you care about and nobody else on this board understands us either. ;)
  20. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    meh... quix, ya just gotta learn some greek... lol

    noobs, yo m'aresi na pao sto 88 keys en woodbridge... sabes eso? no tengo programa esto sabado... mipws quieres ir mazi??? :D
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