Salsa > What the?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by CaliChris10, Apr 1, 2015.

  1. CaliChris10

    CaliChris10 Active Member

    If you don't have a strong comprehension of salsa music you are only dancing to one layer. And there are many...most having to do with the music. So I can for sure say that people who are not into the music do not dance as well, in salsa that is. They might me able to dance well technically but there is a disconnect. Therefore they will lack "sabor". Is the enjoyment at a different level? I would say yes. They might enjoy the dancing but if they don't enjoy the music they are only getting half of the experience.
     
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  2. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I wasn't discussing how well they do or do not dance (though that is still debatable) ...I was discussing the statement of knowing what others do or don't understand...but we can agree to disagree....I would still maintain that really good dancers in salsa or any other style have the internal resources to dance it so well that you'd have no idea whether or not they like the song, are truly lacking in sabor or not...but we don't have to agree....and that's cool
     
  3. CaliChris10

    CaliChris10 Active Member

    Its not about disliking one song..its about disliking the entire genre. Every one dislikes certain songs...and do we get stuck dancing to them? Sure. For me I don't like to fake it and would rather sit it out. But to say that you dislike the whole genre and continue to dance you are just going through the mechanics. And I honestly find this disingenuous. Many of us spend hours a day working on learning the music and dance and for someone to come along and say they don't like the music but dance it anyway is incomprehensible.
    I cooling with agreeing to disagree...
    P.S. You can totally see and feel when someone is lacking sabor if you know what you are looking for!!!
     
  4. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    Salsa is different than ballroom...the music is the reason we dance. If you don't like it, don't understand it and don't feel it you will never truly get it.


    ponders response........ has heard the same umm err stuff from the wcs and argentine tango peeps .... still doesn't buy it
     
  5. CaliChris10

    CaliChris10 Active Member

    And they never will cause they don't get it! ;)
     
  6. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    in your opinion
     
  7. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    Cali i think you missed my point..

    no one genre of dance owns sabor or flava or funk or groove.. you can have flava in any dance genre. just the other night the mrs was dancing mambo competitively in a ballroom comp.. classic mambo number 5 stuff that salsa dancers would shoot themselves if they had to dance to it.. as the highly stylized routine winds down the photographer kneels down in front of the mrs to get a shot. She flicks her assymettric highly rhinestoned dress in his face and model walks away.. crowd goes apesh*t.......SABOR!!!!
     
  8. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    dude, good luck with that
     
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  9. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    LOL im a guy banging my head against the wall is what we do!!:eek::confused::confused::p:cool:;)


    actually just saw a new thread on groove by joy in motion.. this looks very interesting must read

    after DWTS:rolleyes:
     
  10. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    Also.... almost all good music has multiple layers and the experienced dancer in any genre learns to interpret each rendition of a song differently not all foxtrot is jazzy some is slinky some is effervescent and some can be even outright sexy or silly or...

    salsa is a beautifully complex music genre hence the large bands required to play it well.. but iti is not unique in this arena either..depth of performance is related to the commitment of the dancer to learn as much about the music as possible. this is why professional dancers in all genres look so great they have committed to lifelong learning of their craft which includes the music

    for myself my experience in youth orchestra, music structure study and musical performance has helped a great deal
     
  11. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    One small correction.. "It " doesn't need a large band to play it "well", Conjuntos, and many Son groups, are small by comparison , and in many cases, outline the the alma Y Corazon of the genre .
     
  12. IndyLady

    IndyLady Well-Known Member

    So how many people are there that "don't get it" because they don't like the music - is this a handful of people we're talking about, or 50% of the dancers at the club? I realize this issue just came to your attention a few weeks ago so data might be sparse, but I am curious as to how pervasive the problem is.

    And what to do about it? Deny them entrance to the club (perhaps a questionnaire at the entrance asking if they like the music), mandatory counseling/lessons, or are we content to keep them around as fodder so we can dish about them and feel superior? Are they adversely affecting the other dancers' experience?
     
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  13. DerekWeb

    DerekWeb Well-Known Member

    I get the main point. Music is the basis for the dance. You should express the music in your dance from the soul outward. Dance comes from expressing the music, or else it is just gymnastics.


    Yet I see many, even advanced, ballroom dancers do not change their approach to, say waltz, even when there are many moods and differing waltz songs. They will speed up and syncopate when there is no corresponding cue in the music. I think this is because unlike specialists, say Westies, who dance mainly one dance and study all the music, phrasing and pauses, ballroom includes many more dances. Also they dance routines, and at competitions they do not know what will be played.

    Personally, I do not enjoy seeing even the best dancers dancing like there is only a metronome. But I must admit, I often would like to change my dance to fit the music or phrasing, or hold a beat just a little longer. Unfortunately, I do not have the skill necessary.
     
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  14. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    musicality in any genre is still possible without liking that song....you can still feel how to play it...there is space in a skilled dancer to use the music artistically while not liking it...granted, that would not often be found in your garden variety dancer in any genre
     
  15. Bailamosdance

    Bailamosdance Well-Known Member

    Salsa, like every other genre, is based on mathematical formulas called meter, tempo, and scales. There is nothing inherent in this that makes it any different from any other musical form. In fact, the 'salsa' you hear is based a lot on a longstanding reverence for the past, which makes a latin title today almost interchangeable with one written 50 years ago. This is of course a good thing, and makes the salsa expereince something that is easily identifiable by young and old alike. It does NOT however, impart a magic that makes it especially different from, say, dance music created for hip hop or polka, as it all serves the same purpose to a dancer, which is to frame their movement around recognized musical forms.

    And, knowing the current repertoire and changing your choreography to fit a production you know is not any more 'musical' than dancing to something you do not know... Its only easier.

    Finally, can we all just see that a passion for what you assume is the center of your dance love is not any less shared by people who are untrined, or off time, or uninterested in the same nuances that you are into?
     
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  16. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    You made a very astute observation.

    Scrivener drilled into his students that, not ALL the dances in the B/room, should be approached with the same identical "stamp" . He addressed this in his tome, to a small degree ,when he spoke to facial expressions.

    There is a distinct difference dancing TO the music, as opposed to dancing " IN " the music..
     
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  17. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    I believe you missed Calis point ; she made it quite clear ( to me ) about her lack of understanding , as to WHY people dance in a specific genre, whose music they do not like..... It also baffles me ! :confused:.

    And , to make it clear, I'm not opposed to their participation.
     
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  18. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    TT, actually I made my answer to that question quite clearly.

    As I do not enjoy salsa music at all, in that it is never anything I would put on in my car and drive to on a long road trip with the windows down and sing along with. However I will on occasion go to a salsa club and quite enjoyably and successfully dance. (So much that the girls will ask me if I am Puerto Rican, which I think is quite funny, and I almost never sit down as I constantly have a line of partners waiting for me.)

    So when I do, on rather rare occasions, go salsa dancing it is because I enjoy the social aspect, and I like to sweat, I like to move, and because my girlfriends ask me to go. These are the very same reasons I dance to a ballroom song I dislike at a ballroom social. It is a social activity, because I like to move, and because someone asked me to. And a disaffection for a particular genre of music would never stop me from enjoying a very enjoyable moment of dance.

    I wonder why such a disconnect in social empathy and communication skills, in that these answers are determined to be completely insufficient and rejected.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  19. CaliChris10

    CaliChris10 Active Member

    No I didnt miss your point, I made an attempt at a joke.
    Anyway, in spanish One uses the word sabor when we are talking about food or "salsa". Yes you can have flava in any dance, sabor is reserved for "salsa"!

    Thats a great story about your wife but attitude is different than sabor.

    "Salsa" is a social dance and is improvised(as you know), we dont do routines (unless its a comp). Understanding the structure of the music is a key element in improv. It takes time to train your ear(if you didnt grow up with the music), if some one doesnt like the genre I dont see them putting the effort in to accomplish this. Therefore their dance will only go so far. But that really wasnt the point of my op. Which was that I personally dont understand why someone would continue dancing socially to an entire genre (not a song) of music that they dont like.

    And us true salser@s dance to plenty of classic mambo! ;)
     
  20. CaliChris10

    CaliChris10 Active Member

    I hope it is only a handful of people but unfortunately I think its a lot more. I grew up with mambo so I dont every remember a time not loving it. My mom danced with Tito Puente at the palladium in NYC, my family is latin, it is a part of life not a hobby, so it was a very alien concept for me...dancing and not enjoying the music.
    The problem I have seen over the past years in the salsa scene is that the dancing has become more mechanical, and for a musical dancer, yes, that is problematic. The focus has shifted to the dance not the music, as it was in the past. I dont think there is much to be done about it. More music education in class I suppose.
    I would never tell someone not to dance. I was just stating that I dont get it. If you want to dance to music you dont enjoy, do it. What ever floats your boat.
     

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