Swing Discussion Boards > Why do people critique and boss me in West Coast?

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by Me, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    I know this is a swing thread but I just have to give props to a certain salsa instructor at my studio. He teaches people how to listen to the music and find the beats. So few instructors do this.
     
  2. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    Yea, my swing instructor spends a lot of time on how to listen to music. I have really learned a lot. It does take time to learn to isolate different layers of music. Then learning to move you body to those different layers brings up a whole different challenge.
     
  3. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    Most importantly, did you get out dancing WCS this weekend? Did any of the ideas help smooth out the dance communications?
     
  4. Apache

    Apache Member

    Haha, I have had DJ's in the past issue death threats for people who clap off time in jam circles during Lindy events.
     
  5. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Member

    My experiences with WCS:

    It's pretty much a 'baby-boomer' only dance (at least here it is), younger people tend to find it boring.

    The 'connection' the instructors always emphasize - be it 'positive' or 'negative' (towards or away from one another) virtually never materializes.

    The entire thing depends on whether or not the follow either knows what she is doing or at the least gets into the music and is good at improvising.
    If that's not happening, neither is the dance, completely regardless of how good or clueless the leader is.

    WCS mainly consists of the guy doing not very much at all (which I suspect is part of the reason why it's popular with the baby boomers, see above) while he 'expects' the lady to 'show off' for him.
    Which they tend not to do.
    (See also: no connection).

    The majority of WCS dancers I know do nothing else.
    They'll do WCS to the thme from Sesame Street.
    Or The Star Spangled Banner.
     
  6. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    I don't know where you live so I can't speak to your personal experience, but your assessment of WCS is quite different from my reality. What you describe is WCS done badly.

    If you want to enjoy WCS, find a venue with good dancers who have taken lessons with good teachers, and you'll see a big difference. If there's absolutely nothing like that in your area, maybe travel to one of the many excellent weekend events such as those listed on USA Swing Net, and take workshops with top level people.
     
  7. Dancelf

    Dancelf Member

    Unlucky, those. Well, except perhaps for the one about westies not doing any other dances - that's pretty common.

    Normally, I'd try to point you to some locally based instructor who would be more representative of the national dance scene, but from what I can find on the web, Albuquerque is not close to anybody.
     
  8. DWise1

    DWise1 Well-Known Member

    I have to agree that Wölfi's been seeing WCS done badly. Especially the part of there being no connection.

    Actually, we do other dances besides WCS. Here in So Calif, our dance parties are what we call "California Mix", which includes WCS, NC2S, Hustle, Country 2Step (C2S), Cha Cha, and whatever else a couple might request (we usually throw in a salsa or two and even a waltz).

    And, yes, the standard boast is that you can dance WCS to almost any music. Though towards the end of last Saturday's party the DJ played some new "hippity-hoppity" song (¿Poker Face?) and I noticed one couple dancing Argentine Tango to it.

    I guess you can dance AT to almost anything.


    PS
    FWIW, a few months back during a C2S I say one couple dancing Balboa to it. So I guess the same goes for Bal, eh?
     
  9. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    Once a leader gets the basics nailed and learns to move along the rails with his partner, WCS totally opens up. Just like with any other dance, it takes a lot of reps of the basics to get there.
     
  10. Me

    Me New Member

    Sorry... I haven't been out dancing WCS since I posted this thread, basically. Not avoiding it... just not going out of my way to dance it. I'll let you know when I do. Thank you for asking! :)
     
  11. uncle joe

    uncle joe New Member

    ME, According to the lastest reports from the Camp Hollywood festival, you no longer have to put up with WCS because it is history.
    Here is a Quote from my Mambo Dance Partner from the 1950's:

    "I was there (CH) the whole time. These kids are doing Lindy and they looked and danced great. One thousand of them."
     
  12. DWise1

    DWise1 Well-Known Member

    Absolutely wrong! WCS is still alive and well and being danced by a large well-established community. Just as Lindy is being kept alive and being danced by its community. Just as ballroom is being danced by its community and salsa by its community. Just because you go to a big salsa event and none of the classes offered includes WCS, that does not mean that WCS is dead. No more than the fact that they don't teach Lindy either would mean the demise of Lindy.

    WCS and Lindy are two different dances. What part of that do you not understand?

    There is a WCS community (more than one, actually) and a Lindy community. What goes on in one community does not directly impact the other community. What part of that do you not understand?

    We would expect Lindy to be danced and taught at a Lindy event, but there is no reason to expect salsa to be taught there. Nor WCS. What part of that do you not understand?
     
  13. uncle joe

    uncle joe New Member

    Chris, Excellent critiques:
    Let me try to field both <1 & 2 > in general, and then individually:

    My Six Count Lindy Teaching Method titled The Magic Pill was a way of having the student focusing on the rhythm instead of the Eight step teaching Guide which is Not a Teaching method.

    1) I use the SIX counts as a rhythmic code, a guide for the three essential Basic Lindy Techniques: syncopated rhythm, guide where & when to lead, and the Rock Step to maintain constant resistance; all techniques are included as an integral part the SIX CODE of a first Lindy Lessen. Check my Magic Pill in the Dance Forum Archives

    2) The basic Triple Lindy pattern takes a BAR & HALF, to compete; whether you count steps or the beats (Notes) which is < One Quarter Note, Two Eighth Notes; One Quarter Note, Two Eighth Notes; and two Quarter Notes> A total of Six Quarter Notes or a Bar & Half of 4/4 time music. Staying on Phrasing in Lindy be it 4, 8 or 16 bars does not work.

    For example of the integrated Techniques in the Six Counts I have included an excerpt from My Magic Pill:
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ONE & TWO, THREE & FOUR, FIVE SIX

    LADY, ON THE 1... &2 ALWAYS travels or turns only on these 3 steps;
    LADY ON THE 3... &4 ALWAYS takes 3 steps in-place;
    LADY ON THE 5 -- 6 ALWAYS Rocks Back, takes 2 steps.

    MAN ON THE 1... &2 - 3... &4 takes 6 steps in-place, rotating with the direction of his leads;
    MAN ON THE 5-- 6 ALWAYS Rocks in the direction of his leads;
    MAN ON THE 1... &2 ALWAYS gives his leads.

    Uncle Joe
    The Dancer's Best Friend
     
  14. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    I am going to ask very nicely that this rather off topic discussion be dropped. What on earth do the past few posts have to do with anything??? Can we PLEASE get back in line with the original posters delima?
     
  15. flashdance

    flashdance Active Member


    Thank you for the newsflash from the miserable dancers association of 1950 :p

    Jeez who took the fun out of dancing, some folk just take things way too seriously....

    ME, hope you find a place where you can have fun and learn at your own pace without all that rubbish :) Not done partner dancing for yonks but if they annoy you, step on their toes...
     
  16. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    PLEASE can we drop this endless pointless battle? I am asking nicely. Next deviation gets an infraction. Final request.
     
  17. SD

    SD New Member

    Unfortunately, bad leading is a part of every social dance. :(

    Every city seems to have its pool of social-skill-challenged folk. In my town the population density does seem higher at the WCS events. There and at certain protest rallys. <shrug>

    I can think of no better advice!

    In the spirit of thoroughness, I might add.....
    • I sometimes find that singing select song lyrics and humming/speaking to the music can dampen unwanted conversation - works for overly talkative follows as well.
    • I have been known to advise leads: "You should know... I'm sort of a naughty follower... I don't always do as I'm told" ... follow with favorite hijack
    • If you start to learn how to lead you immediately double your choice of partners.
     
  18. SD, your first 2 points are very funny! Just a little bit of "giving it back"
    without malice!




     
  19. 3wishes

    3wishes Well-Known Member

    Back to topic, as I've been lurking on the this message for awhile. The question is interesting. In WCS, there are only three things the lady really (simply put here rather than a long discussion) needs to know 1) protect your frame - picture pushing a grocery cart, arms soft and slightly bent - don't allow your arms/elbows to move backward past your body (huge no-no) 2) Know your rhythm, if it's a basic, side pass (your passing him once on one side) or sugar push it's a 6 count basic (for sake of conversation) if your going to pass him twice it's a whip with an 8 count - always anchoring or "stay in place" the last 3 counts of either, if he does not "lead" you into anything - stay in place and do the basic 6 count until he does. 3) this sounds weird but..here goes...you know nothing. absolutely nothing. You have no idea the pattern or movement or figure unless he leads it, and don't anticipate or think you know what's next - every lead is different...to say the least. Just stay in your slot, he moves out of the way, it's your slot. And if you've chosen the one option, resulting from his lead, that he did not want you to do - it's his lead/fault. Always. ta daaaa. Your quite patient, "Me" to change your WCS style to fit your leader request. PM me if you want to discuss further.
     
  20. SD

    SD New Member

    Thanks for the appreciation,
    The idea is not so much to be "giving it back" but to be shaping the sort of interaction that suits you.

    Anyone who is focused on what the people around them are doing wrong at the expense of paying attention to and excelling at their own side of the business can be really annoying to deal with.

    But often times they turn out to be generally nice people who are, in one particular situation, in a tad over their heads. Cultivating the right attitude, polishing it, and putting it out on display is really helpful in dealing with certain people. The tricky part is to do it in a way that comes across as nice - Or at least to come across as attractive, which, as it happens is sometimes more effective than nice; (there is no explaining that part.) (example: "That So-and-so is such a jerk! ..... Is he/she here? ..... invitation to dance follows...)
     

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