Salsa > Why Do Salceros Get All The Pretty Ladies??

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Salcero, May 3, 2006.

  1. Salcero

    Salcero Member

    OK so I'm at a Social this past weekend and a male friend of mine tells me that when I get really good, I'll have to chase the women away and that women love guys that can dance.

    So my question to the fellas is ... did you notice a big difference with the ladies when you improved? My question to the ladies is ... if it true that good dancers are a big turn on and if so do you give them a lot more play than the average Joe Dancer?
  2. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    I'm not a lady, but I might as well pitch in and say something :) Seems like a fun thread...

    I was born and grew up a nerd. I'm not bad looking or anything, but by the time I started paying attention to my social skills, I was 23. Many years later, I'm still a relative newbie to the world of socializing with women and dating (considering that most other socially apt fellas have been going at it since they were 14, when they were allowed to make mistakes that are not expected of a 25+ year old). So I've generally found it harder to resonate with women at a romantic level.

    I've learned that whatever activity you pursue, be it salsa or something else (and I've been mad about plenty of 'something elses' and tried to excel at them. Only salsa seems to have stuck so far) - as you start getting better and better, other folks in the community develop a certain respect for you and you become a 'cool' person to hang with etc. If you are also single and there are other singles in the group, you do end up getting some attention. It is even more true in Salsa scenes because most of your primary interactions are with members of the opposite sex - thus providing more basis for a romantic takeoff.

    Personally, I never get attention from the girls I like(sigh! fate?), and I'm battiling a girl who is constantly hitting on my (within respectable limits, but boy is she persistant!) I only like as a friend and someone to dance with since she is a great follower. Having her show up in all the same socials I go to and her attempts to cling on to me are getting to be a great pain in the backside... (which, incidentally, prompted me to start the other 'dating' thread).
  3. Salcero

    Salcero Member

    Funny you should mention that cause I find myself picking up a lot of dead weight also. I guess the kind of woman I'm interested in will eventually come around because I'm putting myself in that environment, but it sure is funny how women that you just want to be friends with and maybe practice once in awhile with want to take it to another level.
  4. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    I don't know if you get more 'play' exactly, but its much easier to introduce yourself to a lot of women. I always find that the first 30 seconds is the hardest part of asking girls out. Its also really easy to arrange a "screening" pre-date, just by asking them out to go dancing in the middle of the week. and I think you get a lot better feel for girls that would be "fun".

    You still need to ask for their numbers, call them up, ask for a date, etc... in that sense its just as much work. I think its a lot less difficult to get things moving and less emotionally stressful to meet a lot of girls because of dancing... and I think I waste a lot less time screening out girls I am really not interested in... so the "quality" of dating seems to have gone up, much less stressful and many less awkward dates.

    On the negative side... I think there are a lot of girls I -would- have asked out, taken more of a chance with if I didn't dance with them all the time. You worry more about remaining "friends" with them; and that's kind of a state fundamentally incompatible with dating... which really requires you to take emotional risks.

    so, somewhat of a mixed bag, mostly good.
  5. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    I actually think that's fine. Its kind of cool trying to get their attention... gives you something to work for, keeps your interest. I like a little bit of "hard to get". It makes it more special when you get there. I find girls who throw themselves at you a major turn-off, even if you would have considered going out with them normally.

    Part of it is flirting and chasing girls is fun, and part of it is just psychological. Sometimes you feel like if a girl who isn't into you has her own life... doesn't fixate on you. If it doesn't work out, you can kind of amicably split up. A girl who is too eager and you feel like, "if I sleep with her, will she want to move in?"... breaking up would be some crushing blow that would leave her suicidal. People who are too needy: major yuck.

    the other part of it.... shared emotional risk is, IMHO, what makes relationships work. If you both don't have some risk there... you don't have that glue that brings you together. That sense of sharing something really traumatic. If you never get out of that comfort space, you are never going to really have a passionate romance.
  6. englezul

    englezul New Member

    Because they are not intimidated by them anymore. By the time one gets "really good", being surrounded by beautiful women all the time, one will get used to it and consider it normal. Thus one can be oneself and get out of that "got to impress her" mentality. This as opposed to someone who doesn't normally interact with women, and especially not with attractive women, and when put in that sort of situation he will either freak, or be boring. So the answer is that...they learn to keep composure during interactions and let their personality come through anything they do.
  7. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    Totally agree with the 'needy=yuck' comment. I'm not sure about 'hard to get' though. I'm not into playing games because I find that less than respectful. Yes, I believe there is a value in taking a bit of a risk in asking for somebody's number or asking her out on a date, but I like to hear something along the line of 'sure, what would you like to do' a polite refusal in the way of 'hmm...i'm not ready' or 'maybe some other time' (implying never, but nicely). What I don't like is someone who enjoys attention which they are not planning on ever returning, and somebody who plays too hard to get when she is really interested...

    Most folks seem to be forgetting oftentimes that a 'date' is not the culmination of romantic activities, rather just the beginning - an opportunity to spend time together, talk etc and figure out if there is more substance to the mutual feeling that you might want to share more time together... In my books, the first date should be _easy_, perhaps even the second date, and by then, the possibility (or not) of another date should be obvious to both.
  8. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    Dude... get over it. Guys love games. They are fascinated by them. Games are to guys what string is to kittens. and seriously... don't tell me you are going to respect a women that you spend less time thinking about than putting together your fantasy football team, or how to beat the next big dragon in warcraft, or whatever. Games are the medium in which guys come to respect girls.

    now... tell me you don't love going on dates where you pretend to be the english super spy and she gets to be the russian agent, and you have to seduce her at the gaming tables of the casino... or you are undercover police agents... or she is the french resistance fighter... and you are the german agent she has to seduce. Admit it: You LOVE it. Admit it!!!!!!
  9. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    or she gets to be Laura Croft... and you are the rival agent. or maybe a scavenger hunt date...

    oh! like Davinci code! Puzzles! In the Louvre! How do we end up getting from the Louvre to Sacre Coure up on Mont Mart, under a full moon? and its a full moon in a week! Not much time to plan! and contingency plans for weather! So much work to be done, so little time! The plot is afoot! Plots within plots! and they are afoots! afeet? yah!

    This is gonna be GREAT!
  10. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    I don't watch football. I don't even know the rules.
    I don't play computer games, or role playing games, or whatever.
    I can ice skate niftily though ;) I'd rather be thinking about the girl right in front of me than fantasizing about her when she isn't around.

    Win or lose, as long as the evenutuality of the seduction is already mutually agreed upon, I'd be thrilled to play. ;)

    I'd probably enjoy being chased than to be the one doing the chasing, but like I said, I suppose it would be frustrating to the gal too... so I'd rather not play these games.
  11. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    Dinner dates are frustrating. "Safe" guys, tepid relationships, boredom, passionless men, and romance that's been "mutually agreed upon". That's frustration!

    oooo.... where do you think I can get a decoder ring? do they still put those in cereal boxes? That would be the PERFECT memento to present to her so she can remember this date forever! This is gonna be so cool.
  12. waltzgirl

    waltzgirl Active Member

    OK, I don't mean to be harsh, but often when someone (man or woman) makes this kind of complaint, it may mean that they are setting their sights unrealistically. The truth is that, in general, people tend to partner up with others who are roughly their "equals" in attractiveness and social skills. If you are only interested in the hottest girls, you need to ask yourself whether you are among the hottest guys. If not, maybe you should widen your horizons a bit.
  13. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    If I didn't know it already, I'd have thought it harsh. No, I'm not aiming higher than my 'stature' so to speak of. I'm not among the hottest of guys, and neither do I aspire for women who are the hottest thing around the block. They tend to have had different experiences growing up/dating/respondign to attention that I can't related with and therefore, we naturally wouldn't "click".

    The type I tend to go for has the girl next door looks and attitude, probably has a degree and is some kind of a professional, more intellectual in her day job and was likely a geek in high school. Considering these as 'desirable' qualities (from my perspective), I'm easily a very 'hot' guy (within this definition of 'hot'). So no, I don't set my sights too high. It is just that more often than not, attractions tend to be unrequited.
  14. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    You must be the expert flamebaiter around the block :)
  15. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    ok, some advice:

    (a) talk to her. find out what she is passionate about. dance is a pretty safe bet, but you never know. If she's not passionate about something, she isn't worth talking too. Remember to say "I feel the same way", or better yet tell her what she told you so she can tell you that she feels the same way.

    (b) compliment her. hair, eyes, sense of style, and how well her shoes match her handbag and how well it really brings out highlights in her eyes are safe. You did pay attention to her shoes and handbag, right? If they match, its not an accident, its probably the work of extended effort. and you are probably the only guy in the room who noticed, let alone cared enough to tell her how great it looks!

    (c) be in control. initiate everything. approach her. pick the topic of conversation. (talking about what she feels passionately about is a good bet). ask for her number. ask to maybe get together for a coffee (45 minutes tops). If things are going well, ask her out on a real date.

    (d) she's allowed, even expected!, to not return the first 2 phone calls you leave, and she can 'forget' your first coffee pre-date. After that, its 'take me seriously or good bye'

    (e) Persistence, persistence, persistence. but never waste her time. Always limit the time on all interactions. "Hi, I really need to run, my friends are waiting for me... but I couldn't leave without telling how much I love the color of that dress, it really picks up the highlights in your hair."
  16. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    okay so you're not just a silly troll, you are also good at articulating valuable advice. thank you :)

    I'm good at a,b,c. That's how I figure out who I'm into - esp. the intellectual side of a person is completely lost if your only interaction is salsa dancing. To figure that stuff out, conversations are a must.

    I set the bar at one ignored phone call (not 2), not standing-up ever allowed for the first 3-4 dates/casual get togethers and I only persist if she is at least not disinterested (ie, I don't try to convert people).

    2 salsa dates this week - am I doing too badly? In a manner of speaking yeah it's bad - because there are plenty others I resonate with better. I'm going out in the off chance that I'd missed sizing up a real jewel at the first glance... Oh surely, the right one is out there somewhere.... :)
  17. thespina13

    thespina13 New Member

    Don't short-change the girls you're with. If you get into the date with an attitude like "you're not the best one but you'll do", you're destined for utter failure all the time. And you would deserve it, too. People don't deserve to be viewed that way. Women can tell when you're evaluating them, or waiting for someone better to walk around the corner and bump into you. Stop focusing on yourself, become truly interested in your fellow human being, be open to casual intimacy and genuinely give of yourself. Don't think about your own gain or your own pleasure, focus on filling her with a sense of worth and value and joy, and you'll likely not only have an army of good friends, but start seeing the beauty in every woman you dance with.
  18. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    You are right, and I don't do that - ever. I'd rather be dateless than go out with someone I don't see some potential in. And when I see some potential, I naturally show interest and whatnot...

    I suppose I'm not the best in articulating my PoV without allowing it to have other negative connotations as well... enuf said.
  19. englezul

    englezul New Member

    The important thing to remember here is to be under the radar and do not give the impression you're trying too hard to know her, that you're fishing for a good reaction from ehr. Usually this phase takes place after she is somewhat attracted to you. Otherwise, she already had that very "interview" at least a couple of times this week.

    I don't agree with this, IMO compliments are a two way street. You can really nail one by complimenting her on something she feels really proud of but most of the other people don't notice it. Or you can compliment her on the same things that any other guy interested in her did and you will be placed in the same category as them. A needy guy making a compliment hoping the girl will like him for that. This is somewhat farfetched because it really depends on HOW you do it. As long as it doesn't emanate that aura of neediness (**OMG I NEED a GIRLFRIEND and you're good enough**) and instead comes from a place of confidence and complete honesty you can compliment her on anything and it will not work against you. Compliments are not for early in the game, unless you're so good looking that she already wants you.

    I agree with this. But don't be boring. Remember you are first and foremost in a club (assuming it's a night out) she wants to relax and have a good time. She doesn't want to develop the deepest existential dilemmas of the human condition the first time she met you. Just keep it light but fun. Telling stories is a great way to interact with someone and also get them going start with small funny stories then proceed to other topics.

    Haha. Girls are flakey. But I have to interject a little. She is indeed expected to flake, but not in anyway ALLOWED. Time is your most valuable possession. Make sure she respects it.

    When they flake (or attempt to), it's because regardless how much fun they had when they were with you, the moment you're not physically there anymore, forget that good feeling that motivated them to maintain the interaction in the first place.If you got her on the phone what you want to do is bring that feeling back, then ask them out on a date. Now if it's obvious that she's so into you it's not even funny, you don't need to do it. And always call to confirm the meeting. It saves you alot of time if she changed her mind. And if she did and wants to cancel, don't act bummed out, just be cool, keep your composure.

    This would never fly with the girls I'm after :). I don't mean bitches, I mean girls that are attractive and as a consequence approached alot. I usually make fun of guys that come up and say stuff like that. Yeah, not very nice of me, but ... I just think it's funny.

    I, however, agree with the main idea here. As Trent from "Swingers" would say...this is money. But I would ditch the "never waste her time" idea. I mean don't go in with this attitude of not wanting to waste her time. Your attitude should be that "I'm a great guy and you will have a great time talking to me". Aside from this little but important IMO aspect, I agree with limiting the time of your interactions IF you feel you can't handle going forward with it. For example if you feel you run out of things to say, or she's obviously bored, etc, get out. But if she's really enjoying the conversation talk to her a little longer. Paradoxically I will also add to end on a high note. Tricky. But really this doesn't really matter much because a good interaction has peaks and valleys. You can't have someone feel better and better and better..and better...forever. You have to pause, pace the conversation, then turn the knob up again.

    Oh, I almost forgot to address something I think is very important and thespina13 brought it up. I think the most important thing is the genuineness of the situation. If the woman feels that what you're trying to do is "get her" but you don't genuinely like her you will go down in flames. And rightfully so, why would you try to set up a date with a girl you dont really like?
  20. Shooshoo

    Shooshoo New Member

    This is very entertaining to read :) .

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