Salsa > Why Do Salceros Get All The Pretty Ladies??

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Salcero, May 3, 2006.

  1. africana

    africana New Member

    lol i agree with overall approach, but don't presume so much about my level of bitterness - I tend to be quite cautious about reaching that state (as concerns certain segments of the male population). cos it's better to be perceptive about what these men want and not play silly games.
    and i should have clarified that it's not all men that I tend to avoid (hahaa!) just the -competent- salsero types, too many issues there
    btw sweavo I soooo agree about the lady social climbers, too many females runnin scams, can you say "free lessons" :lol: maybe I wasn't bright enough to use that track as a beginner, but I'm sure I would have progressed much faster bwahaa!
    Btw, men do it too ;)
     
  2. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    Although this sounds like the right advice, I know from my own life that it is not necessarily true. I have the greatest of all careers I could have hoped for (or anyone else in my field can hope for!), and all I did to get it for consistently work my knat off all the years of high school and college. I didn't even go and apply for job interviews - the interview offer and the job offer came my way when I was sitting on my knat working a part time job after graduating from school. The only thing I had going for me was that once the phone screen guy started talking to me, he knew he had to hire me.

    My analogy to the dating scene is that I'm being the best person I can be, nice and pleasant to everyone. I have several dreams and wishes, many a times it manifests as an attraction to a particular person - but when the right one comes along, the mutual desire to be together will make it obvious to both that it is the right thing... sorry, but I'm not much of a _chaser_ :) Also, as much as I crave for a woman in my life, the void is not messing with my happiness in any way, so I'm easily capable of infinite patience!
     
  3. englezul

    englezul New Member

    You are very fortunate to have found a job that satisfies you completely with so little effort (outside from all the work you put in before you graduated). But for the sake of argument I will say this, without intending to offend you in any way, what if your dream of a lifestyle was a 10 bedroom mansion, with a Porsche for every day use, and a Bugatti Vernon in your garage, a job that pays you in 7 digits a year, and beautiful wife, smart and successful by your side. Do you think you can achieve something like that by "sitting on your knat"? I aknowledge that not many people desire that to the point they are willing to invest that much energy to achieve it, also that
    one can be perfectly happy living in Nepal with his loved one sustaining themselves with the animals they raise and vegetables they grow, and nobody really needs this much to be happy. But my personal philosophy is that the richest person is the person who has choice and opportunities. Choice is really what I'm after, and although one could argument "it's my choice to work in a job (but really anything) paying $40 000 a year", that's only an illusion meant to justify stagnation.


    Yes, that is a great attitude to go through life, being the best person that you can be. But that doesn't really translate to being nice and pleasant to everyone, enduring abusive behaviour, being content with anything that's given to you. Or romantically getting pushed into that friends zone where while you're good enough to be a shoulder to cry on, or to entertain her, but you're not good enough to date. These are the typical "nice guys".

    You become the best person you can be by pushing yourself forward constantly and developing yourself in a multilateral fashion. You, and me, and many people on this forum, are already doing it by striving to become competent salsa dancers (well I can't say I hate how much fun it is either, but it's certainly another aspect of myself that I'm improving). I one or two more years, after I will have reached a certain level of competence, If I will decide I am content, I will take up another activity and get good at that, and so on. In the end you will be your own work of art, you will have had a life rich in experiences, you will have met a huge number of amazing people, you will have grown yourself alot, you will have become a more confident, more radiant person, that other people (the ones who didn't put that much effort in growing) will want to be around.

    I agree with this. If you are not a happy person single, getting involved in a relationship will not make your life any better. And an aura of unhappiness will certainly not be attractive to any woman who has choice.

    I think you're taking the easy way out with this infinte patience thing. Remember, you might not have enough time to exercise that infinite patience.

    If what you have done so far has not brought you the results you wanted, continuing to do the same things will continue to bring you the same results.

    And I know it's hard finding that woman that "completes" you. But that's why you have to meet many of them. An exceptional woman is only one in 10 or 15, just like an exceptional man.

    Now, I want to add that although I wrote this based on your comments they're not addressed at you; I'm don't want to come across as assuming a role of know it all trying to teach you how to live your life. It's just some ideas I have that I wanted to throw out there and if anyone finds anything useful in there fine. If not, at the least I'm sure it was interesting. I had to add this disclaimer to avoid other types of discussions.
     
  4. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    Except for the Porsche + Bugatti Vernon thing (which I can get, but I'm not into cars much), I'm already there - got it all by sitting on my knat, just being the best person I can be (in the context of school/professional learnings). The beautiful wife part I suppose can be gotten too if I were into Russian mail order brides or decided to become the son my father always wanted and let him find me an arranged-marriage-east-indian-bride!

    The rest of your comments are thought provoking to to me to say the very least, and I do have a tendency to copout or take-it-easy.... I think I know what you are trying to say though -that to be the best is not the same as being passive. You try and try and push the envelope of your abilities until your abilities grow - somewhat like strength training or salsa dancing - only you have to do that in the romantic side of your life as well. So yeah, I'll read your stuff again when I'm in a more reflective mood. thx!
     
  5. waltzgirl

    waltzgirl Active Member

    Yeah, I'm sorry. Bad mood and a little personal experience breaking through.

    Actually, it sounds like you're not doing too badly. I agree with the advice to focus on making sure your dates are having a good time and on bringing out the best in them. That way, she'll relax and you'll get to see the real her. You might be surprised at what you discover and end up developing feelings for someone who didn't seem ideal at first glance.
     
  6. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    nah, I totally disagree. Way too many guys give up too early on potential relationships. Always make a point of going up and saying hello, a couple minutes of flirting. Keep it short, don't try to monopolize her time, but don't give up at the first sign of difficulty either.

    and you aren't chasing her around because you have nothing else to do... you are chasing her around in spite of having a ton of other things to do. You make time in your life for them and women pick up on that. (and lets be real... would you really want to go out with a girl that wasn't a central part of your life?)

    You can do a lot better than just dating women who are "easy"; and you can have a lot of fun doing it.
     
  7. I have to admit that I'm not persistant. I feel that if the woman is truly interested in you, she'll let you know right away (with a clear indication). If they are interested in you and playing hard to get for any great length of time, they're probably too high of maintanence for my liking. I prefer to spoil a woman who I respect and care about than someone who just demands it.

    I prefer honesty and respect. Give them that and respect them when they return it. Learn to respect rejection too. If one of the parties doesn't feel the right chemistry between you, they're doing you a favor of not wasting your time. Maybe there's a place for them in your life as a good friend.

    I think the persistant person does get the other person in alot of cases, because people sometimes crave the attention, but then suddenly realize that this isn't the person they really want to be with.

    Just rambling again!
     
  8. HF

    HF New Member

    :applause:
     
  9. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    Actually, the exact opposite has been my experience. They aren't calling you all the time; they aren't emotionally as "needy", using you as some kind of emoptional dumping ground; they aren't trying to take over your life (well, or they are, but doing it in a much more effective way!)

    My theory is that a "HTG girl" is one who is letting you (making you?) control the emotional pace of the relationship. Its like poker, you ante up some emotional stuff, and she might match you... but she never leads the betting. and she lets you do it on your own time, not rushing you into something you aren't comfortable with. I actually think its deeply considerate, even though its kind of got a bad rep as being "cruel" to guys, or "not progressive" enough, or playing games.

    ymmv.
     
  10. sweavo

    sweavo New Member

    In my experience, it's mostly other women doing the evaluating. As some wise person once said: If you want to woo a man, here's the secret: turn up.

    ... oh hang on, that rings a bell now you mention it :)
     
  11. englezul

    englezul New Member

    A girl that's hard to get. And she's hard to get because she is beautiful, successful, has her life together, and thus has many other options when it comes to dating. What you think nobody else wants to date her?

    Thus she is confident in herself, doesn't become needy, doesn't need a drawer in your closet after the first month of dating, doesn't try to run your life (mostly because if it's not already together she will not date you) doesn't get jealous, etc. That's why you need persistance. When she's getting asked out 10 times a week (which is a terrible understatement for an attractive woman) you have to really have something special going for you. That "I want her to want me for who I am" is a fantasy, because there are a huge number of guys out there, who are nice people,are honest, loyal, have a steady job, are somewhat reliable...etc, who share this mindset but if it really comes down to value, they really don't have much to offer, are boring and predictable. Just like the majority of girls who are really nice people, but while in a relationships they become boring and predictable.
     
  12. thespina13

    thespina13 New Member

    Honestly, now.

    You've illustrated yet another misconception of the beautiful women that abounds. They aren't royalty, who have a parade of suitable partners offered them with a list of attractive qualitites from which they get to pick and choose. She meets you, you meet her, and really, truly, if there is a good dynamic there, if you are two human beings who are meant to be together or who have some compatibility, she will feel it too. It's unlikely that she'll evaluate all the "something specials" you've got going for you. She's not going to think "well Tyson has a private jet. Why would I want this dweeb?" If she is, you don't want her anyways.

    Please PLEASE don't be one of those guys who goes around thinking "I'm just like everyone else and I have nothing going for me, so I'm going to be EXTRA persistent and EXTRA outgoing and seize what I desire!" Just like she's confident and together, you must be too. You are the desperate variable in this equation, if you're anything but independantly satisfied. I'm here to tell you that if you approach ANYONE like a true and genuine friend who just wants to smile and talk, you will be received well. Don't NEED the relationship, don't label her or stuff her into pigeonholes (we have a lot of those for ladies), treat her as the unique person she is and with respect and no expectation. Hoping is fine. Fantasizing is fine. Expecting or being cynical are not.

    And for all you know, she's DOESN'T get asked out 10 times a week. Have you read model interviews? All the most admired women in the world report having no-one ask them because everyone around them has about a thousand pounds of assumptions they place on them. "Oh, she already has a boyfriend, she gets asked out all thetime, she'd never look at me, she's too good for me" bla bla f*** bla. So they wind up with admirers from afar with deer-caught-in-the-headlights looks on their faces, with no one calmly approaching her. And when they DO approach her they become overzealous because of their insecurity. Also, how "together" do you think she is? If she has poise, she likely has skeletons in her closet too, just like all of us.. she's just managing them better. If she's beautiful, it's likely that she curses a part of herself in the mirror every morning just like we all do. We are all the same, even though we come in different packages.

    Englezul, you effectively told us that the guy has nothing special going for him and he oughtta find a gimmick or a sales pitch, pronto, or he won't have a chance, based on a fiction you made up about a girl that doesn't even exist. Come on now.
     
  13. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    yeah, but women only see the persistent guys.

    For every guy like that, there are 9 more sitting there making up excuses about how "if it was really meant to be, I would have known" ... or who go on a date and its not some massively successful event and they never call back. Takes a lot of smacking them around, "dude, call her and ask her out again" or "don't give up on her yet". They aren't happy, and what about the girl... what's she thinking, "we went out, and it was ok, and he never calls back? Is there something wrong with me? Did I do something wrong?" Its not good for anyone.

    If Darcy gave up at the first sign of trouble... Pride and Prejudice would have been a tragedy. He doesn't give up, it all works out. That's persistence.
     
  14. ssjss

    ssjss New Member

    How did this turn into a dating thread?
     
  15. thespina13

    thespina13 New Member

    Salseros getting pretty ladies is pretty much directly associated with dating...
     
  16. englezul

    englezul New Member

    This is the third time I write a reply, because I probably have a cookie problem or something and my post gets lost. I thought I knew what was happening but after losing the second one, besides getting slightly annoyed, I realize I really have no clue.

    I'm not illustrating any misconception here. I mentioned in all my posts that the attractive women I'm talking are also successful and have their life together. I'm not talking about the self-intitled LA models/acresses (to be read strippers) who are on prowl for financial independence.

    I don't believe in "being meant to be". It's a completely ridiculous concept to me, as I think amongst 3 billion women on this earth I could easily find a couple of hundreds that I could settle down with and be completely happy.

    Interesting reference to Tyson, who not only is an illiterate, but also a psycho, and law offender. While he doesn't exactly fit the Don Juan model, please notice he doesn't have trouble finding a hot date especially he is currently broke.

    I am not one of these guys, and this is exactly the attitude that I am COMPLETELY AGAINST!!! Many people although when asked they wouldn't exactly say this is what they think, but they act as it they believed it, being characterized by inaction, and approval seeking.


    I do believe persistance is a great skill to have in any area of your life. When it comes to dating I believe me and you are considering different situations. While I talk about persistance as the quality of not giving up too easily while keeping everything comfortable, you talk about some guy who just can't get over a girl and face the reality of a rejection.

    I agree completely. I don't think there's anyone who claims the opposite. I don't even know why you felt you needed to add this. It's like claiming snow and fire are different things.

    I don't exactly what you're trying to address here. I believe I did say in a previous post that if one is not completely happy being single, getting a girlfriend/boyfriend will not change the situation. The real problem is much deeper than that. No question about it.


    Anybody can approach anybody at anytime and be received in a "well" but I would rather say polite manner because people are generally nice. However, that doesn't mean anything in terms of getting the contact information, or arranging a meeting, or anything of that sort with a woman you have just met if attraction has not been somehow triggered. And if you don't have the time to convey your personality what will her answer be based on? Physical attributes.

    We have a lot a pigeonholes for men too. I think nature is pretty much balanced that way.

    No expectation? If you refer to "expecting her to assume the role of girlfriend" I agree. But if you refer to the fact that I shouldn't expect certain qualities from her, then I don't. I do have expectations.


    You're argumenting your point using incorrect reference. Inference works from the general to particular not the other way around. You are taking a specific category of women, the most admired models in the world, and say that they don't get approached because they intimidate men. So less famous, less "perfect" girls (while still very attractive) are subject to the same behaviour. This is a fallacy! Because of multiple reasons.

    One is that models, actresses, any other sort of attractive female celebrities (but more than anything models) live in a completely different reality than the other people/women. Let me tell you what the reality of these models is: they fly daily from a continent to another for magazine photoshoots, commercials, fashion shows. They are payed in the range of thousands of dollars per day (it gets really high depending on the popularity of the model). They are invited to the most exclusive parties, where only high status people attend. They have access to venues where the access is so restricted people like you and me will NEVER go in no matter how hard we try (how's that for a gap in reality). Their job revolves around the most physically attractive men because as models, by pure virtue of their job, they're always in their presence. I think you will agree this lifestyle is not at all representative for any non celebrity female.

    Second is that they do get approached, and they get approached a lot. However, a model/celebrity will not get approached on the street (generally)
    they get approached during social events, parties, etc!! While the average Wal-Mart store manager will feel intimidated by her, and think he's not worthy, the 28 yr old broker who handles transactions of hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars will certainly not have that problem, because by the way our society runs financial success is (wrongly but nonetheless) a measure of a man's value. So by that logic (wrong or not), and that's not to say he doesn't have a great personality either, he will have no issues with inviting that gorgeous model to his Saturday night party he's hosting on his 70ft yacht, where the other people invited are people of special status.

    What guy?

    Please paste the text where I wrote the words "gimmick" or anything else meaning "trick", "cheat", etc.

    That aside I do believe the capacity of selling yourself is one of the most important skills one could have. That along with communication and influence/persuasion. Other people think that is the case too. Think "elevator pitch". The real key here is that in order to sell yourself, you have to know yourself, and that is somthing that most of the people haven't figured out yet. Have ever called a friend asking "What do you want to do today?" to be given an answer like "I don't know, what do you want to do?". When you don't even know what you want to do with your time, I don't think you really know yourself that well.

    If you think I made up this girl you're either out of your mind, or living on a different planet. I think most of men here know or have known a girl that got that kind of attention. Also I think the girlfriend who gets all the boys, including those you have a crush on, is not a foreign idea. Just most of the guys know a guy who never seems to run out of girlfriends.

    But please, don't take my words at face value. Go to the most popular club/coffee place in the nearest metropolis, find the most attractive girls and ask them how often they get approached. Or even better, grab a seat and watch what happens. I see it all the time.

    I think what bothers you is that bringing up this girl makes you deal with the fact that these women do exist, and they do get special attention from men wether they deserve it (as human beings) or not.
     
  17. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    Yeah but this isn't the movies my man. If that were the case, guys everywhere would be approaching women like lovesick puppies (did you see the end of Hitch?--yeah, jump on a girl's car and see how she reacts...) and "in the end," they would "get the girl." Instead, they imitate what they see in the movies and get shot down faster than a no-armed man in a gunfight.

    As for women only seeing persistent guys--sure they see them more, but who says that's a good thing? More quantity (in terms of time here) means little... I'm no woman, but I'd venture to guess that a woman sees who she wants to see, not just who's in her face bugging her for a date. A woman will dance with who she wants to dance with, not just the guy who's up on her asking all the time, right? Again, wearing down the customer service rep who won't refund that money they overcharged you is a good thing--wearing down a woman you plan to spend a great deal of time with is not. Appeal to her so that she is attracted to you, not so that she feels sorry for you and will be with you just to shut you up.

    Now, what you said above implied a situation where after a good date the guy wouldn't call the girl back, and she'd be wondering why not. I'm not suggesting guys don't call girls back--I'm suggesting they don't call back repeatedly. Hence the whole discussion at hand... persistently pursuing. And I hope you don't think that most attractive (in all ways, not just physically, lest I be rebuked :wink: ) women will sit at home and wonder why the guy's not calling back... men are more likely to do that in most cases. Women are not so lovesick early in the relationship that they will do this--they will be out meeting new guys while ol' boy is sitting at home pining away and whimpering like a puppy whose owner has been on a 3-week European vacation.

    All I'm saying is that persistence may turn up a good result here and there just like a man may scour the beach with a metal detector and find gold, but most of the time he's going to find steel-toed boots and paper clips, while he could have been busy looking for wealth elsewhere and actually found some. A large percentage of the time (I'll without basis say 95%) a very persistent man (or woman, but usually a man) winds up annoying the persistee, and hurting the persister (made up words?), which can cause lots of long-term problems. Why force the issue? If there is chemistry, pursue it. If nothing else, just stay friends, and maybe chemistry will develop--often genuinely good chemistry takes time to develop anyway. Be persistent early on and you'll not only lose a potential date but quite possibly a good friend.

    (africana, some of this makes ME sound bitter even though I'm not--it's like I'm paying MYSELF back for that earlier comment :wink: )
     
  18. africana

    africana New Member

    too much talk, not enough walk, that's the problem lol
     
  19. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    I get the ones that I like who like me... ;-)
     
  20. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    If you later on you find there is too much walk, not enough talk, maybe I can offer a foot massage? (do you like vanilla scented oil? cinammon? wow, I personally LOVE the cinammon... mmmm) ;-)
     

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