Salsa > Why getting on the balls?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Imbrace, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. vit

    vit Active Member

    I was never on his classes but I really like his dancing.
    However, from what I saw from various clips, his dancing actually isn't just the same as what he is teaching. For instance, he is counting 123 567 when teaching on2, but in reality, 95% of his steps are very clearly on beats 823 467 (including CBL360 that we discussed a while ago on SF). And even his basic step is way different from what he is teaching in the class. But it's how it is with many great dancers ... they tell and demonstrate you what is accepted as a good technique and not how they are actually dancing (which many times they even can't explain or not aware of)
     
  2. Jag75

    Jag75 Active Member

    It's normal practice when dancing On2 to step on 8& and 4& instead of 1 and 5 - but you're not going to call out "8& 2 3, 4& 6 7".

    He steps on the second "cun" of the tumbao, which falls on the 8& and 4&, not on the 8 and 4. Youtube videos can be unreliable because often the video is slightly ahead or behind the audio. I've attended many of his classes - yes he steps a little differently, but when social dancing he still step ball first, unless doing certain shines.
     
  3. vit

    vit Active Member

    If you want to see it as 8& 4&, you will see it that way. I see it as precisely 8 4.
    My last on2 salsa teacher is also thinking he is dancing close to 123 567, but my camera which unlike youtube clips has accurate sound sync is telling the different truth and it's like with Olive. Interesting thing is that he indeed always starts with 123 567 timing (and he is counting 123 567), but his first CBL shifts to classic mambo timing
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  4. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Many greeat dancers ??..First , if even they were " great ", that has nothing to do with their teaching abilities ( as proven,apparently, in this case ) .
    IF what you say is correct, that hes teaching on a specific beat to break, and then demonstrating something entirely different, then it demonstrably shows ,he has little ,or no teaching knowledge of basic concepts .
    Now.. if you tell your class that, there are alternate ways to express music , and THEN show the comparison with a breakdown ,THATS "teaching "..

    As Im sure you know, the salsa genre, is littered with inefficient " teachers " who really need to be in a class, NOT teaching one !!
     
    Bailamosdance likes this.
  5. vit

    vit Active Member

    Terence, I totally agree that great dancer can be and indeed frequently is a terrible teacher (facing such example right now when our small hobby ballroom group started having classes with a new teacher who ended her very successful competitive career about a year ago and she already thinks she is a good teacher)

    However, with many (probably most) teachers there are differences among what is said by the teacher, what is demonstrated slow motion, what is demonstrated normal speed and what is actually danced socially - it's not hard to prove that by filming - even with many ballroom theachers. But I believe that these differences are reasonably small in your case, as you have tons of experience in teaching. Unfortunately that's not the case with many other
     
  6. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member



    I always make a point of demoing my "taught " sequence/step , exactly as I have broken it down in class, and, if the occasion arises, showing alternates. primarily to let the ladies know that, some dancers ,will have different perspectives .


    And... Im mystified .WHY , do dancers/teachers, from the B/room latin genre, think that all they need to do, is ( hopefully ) play authentic music, and commence to teach the foundation steps of the salsa genre without changing any of the techniques that reflect the differences and style .
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  7. vit

    vit Active Member

    Yes, that's another problem we already discussed on SF ... I suppose one cannot change the technique and style without changing a way of thinking from "ballroom" to "salsa" / "swing" / whatever fist, because he/she simply cannot see the difference. If one is watching the world through the red glasses, then everything is red and he can't see green, yellow, violet, blue etc color. It was also evident from (only one) comment when I posted an example of salsa social dancing (it was indeed Oliver Pineda, dancing socially with a lady who was professional salsa/flamenco/etc dancer from Cuba) in ballroom section, in a thread about ballroom social dancing. For me, it was really nice piece of social dancing, but a member that made a comment wasn't impressed at all, because she couldn't see what was it all about, as she never experienced that in ballroom and she was looking at the clip through the ballroom glasses. She also commented she prefers being more upright when dancing (although the lady on the clip really had very nice and naturally upright posture due to years of dancing). Other members didn't even made any comments

    I have a video of one very funny lesson by Brian Watson, former several times world latin pro champion in ballroom latin, where he is talking about "latinising latin dancing" (!?!), showing some salsa steps (well - what he thinks is salsa, although actually it wasn't even close)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  8. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    And therein lies the problem. " the English ", for some reason, have always believed ( since Pierre came back from Cuba, tho I dont really know what he was looking at ? ! ) they have THE true formula for Latin dance. It does meet a need.. " Competition ", style ?.. even that, in comparison to the comps held in salsa, look like a completely different genre, which I guess they are.. and may they ALWAYS stay that way !! .
     
  9. Imbrace

    Imbrace Member

    vit, can you share the videos of Oliver & Brian?
     
  10. vit

    vit Active Member

    It was this video with Oliver Pineda (first one if you google him anyway)



    As about that lesson by Bryan Watson, I have it on a DVD somewhere, but believe me, there is nothing of value in it
     
  11. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    It might be good for a laugh..;)
     
  12. Imbrace

    Imbrace Member

    Thank you, vit! I'm not expert, but I don't see an issue with Alien's posture. The dancing looks like a social fun piece and she looks sexy. This is naturally attractive. Perhaps some ballroom people want rules in and of themselves.

    What I understand from you guys is that getting on the balls is a natural technique which is used by the indigenous salsa dancers or developed by teachers for the purpose of improving hip movement. Is that what you are trying to say?
     
  13. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member



    Lets be more precise: the part of the foot that comes into contact with the floor FIRST, is.. " Inside edge/ ball and then flat. Do not sustain any rise thru the feet, in matter of fact, it is , to all intents and purposes , a " flat " footed action.

    And yes, C.M. is created by 2 things.. foot/leg , and weight distribution.
     
  14. Jag75

    Jag75 Active Member

    If you want good salsa movement through your dancing you need to start by training proper stepping action in your basic. This is vastly more difficult than first meets the eye. In fact, mastering Cuban motion in salsa is not easy and does take years, really years to feel very comfortable with. Unlike driving a manual, where you can do it without thinking after a few weeks, dancing with fluid movement without thinking again, does take years.

    I know many are put off by this, but the rewards are endless when you get out and have a natural movement that's taken years to hone, and allows you to really express the music that is so influenced by Afro-Cuban rhythms.
     
    tangotime likes this.

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