Tango Argentino > Why is Tango danced like Viennese Waltz?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by tangomaniac, Feb 17, 2014.

  1. tangomaniac

    tangomaniac Active Member

    I see a lot of rise and fall, especially when the woman rises into the cross. I feel some women dancing on their toes. (And then I feel some women dancing flat on their soles so there's no extension of the leg when stepping backwards.)

    It's difficult to keep your center of gravity low with rise and fall.
  2. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Thats a style question. Villa Urquiza style got the biggest amount of rise an fall, followed by international standard tango. Neotango and Milonguero style got no rise and fall, at all. Escenario is in the middle.

    Try to lead the cross without hight change. This is also possible. But look out, you are creepingly on the way to become a Nuevo dancer ;) then..
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
    bordertangoman likes this.
  3. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    There are many women among the championship couples of Villa Urquiza style fame who never touch their shoe heel tips on the floor while dancing. The result is a bent knee and many more social dancers picking up this bad habit in tango.

    When the man moves with a rise and fall, the woman goes along with him. She has no other choice. Sebastian Archaval and Daniel Naccuchio are two names that come to mind (world champions) who use this technique in their exhibitions.
  4. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Alberto Paz / Valorie Hart are pretty definite that dancing on your toes is a no no. If I see someone doing that, it's a safe bet that I will not seek them out as a partner. That's not because of what is in Gotta Tango, it's based on my experience that said woman has a less definite axis.
  5. rain_dog

    rain_dog Active Member

    Ricardo Vidort might disagree:
  6. tangomaniac

    tangomaniac Active Member

    It looks like he's dancing on the ball of the foot. I suspect that his heel would come higher off the floor if he was on his toes.
  7. rain_dog

    rain_dog Active Member

    Right. But look at what his partner is doing...
  8. tangomaniac

    tangomaniac Active Member

    I can't definitely tell, but she is very close to dancing on her toes, for reasons that are beyond me. IF she is on her toes, she does a good job of maintaining her axis and balance. BUT I see very few women dancing like that follower.
  9. Lui

    Lui Active Member

    When I was discovering tango, every experienced dancer seemed to have their very own style, reflecting their personality. Each style was unique and authentic and a personal trademark, in that way. Consequently, what was a perfect solution for one was an absolute no-go for some other. (Most however agreed to remain on one level of height without going up and down).

    There was a certain level of rivalry about the true doctrines and a student had to be careful not to show affiliation to the wrong group by using some “foreign” steps. Finally everybody had to discover his True Tango for himself.

    Today most young dancers from Argentina I encounter dance that generic “Urquiza” style. However, they interpret it without any passion, like a dance automaton. Since they all seem to share the same tailor and shoe shop, they appear pretty exchangeable to me.That’s boring and a little sad.

    I wish more young dancer would muster the courage to burst out of that mold and find a style suited to their unique character. Surly for some going-up-and-down might be a perfect match for their personality and would result in a very interesting and eye pleasing dance style. For others it will always remain out of place.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  10. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    We need to be careful to not confuse "style ", with technique.
    Footwork is technique , R and fall is techn:
    Style represents HOW we show the dance, from a musical persepective ,and in accordance with the dances own style .

    All latin based dances, traditionally, have no R and F ,and the variations that arise thru technical needs, is again, normally absorbed thru the legs/ knees ( there are exceptions... P.D is one for e.g. ) .
  11. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    You are brave. I find it hard to divide form from function in tango. So Naveira did not only develop a new representation, show, attitude, and expression of the dance. He also developed a new technique. Some years ago Chicho told me how Naveira once abandoned all vertical stuff (in motion as well as in leading).
  12. Lui

    Lui Active Member


    I don’t share your definitions. For me “style” is how a dance looks and feels and technique are the means to get that result. Just considering the better known dancers, one will need a specific set of techniques to imitate their style.

    A close embraze Molinette in small space will need a slightly different technique than the same figure done in an open Salon/Stage style.

    There is little rise and fall in my style, but more in the style of others.
  13. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Not everyone shares your seemingly rigid view of things. To me, footwork certainly could be a style preference.
    bordertangoman likes this.
  14. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Thats what I was trying to get across . I was speaking about long standing concepts.
    Changing a "concept " needs, in my mind, to show improvement over its predecessor .
  15. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Once again" FOOTWORK "is a technical application recognised by ALL prof. teachers. And, I didnt say " footwork " was static. On the contrary, it changes to facilitate a specific action...

    BUT, we were addressing R and F ,and to rise on ones "toes " is contrary to the latin concept ( and, I said with some rare exceptions ).
  16. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    The word " technique " gets bandied about so much, its starting to lose its meaning.

    May i suggest, you look at a Prof, exam and see what the distinctions are, or, ask any Prof you know .IF you find anywhere that "style" is included as a technical description, please let me know.

    And to make it perfectly clear, this is NOT my idea , but put forth by greater dance minds ,than you or me.

    And abandoning is a choice, and is really nothing to do with specfic technique.
    Also to remember, " shows " are given much more licence, than one would need in a social dance setting, and isnt that what 95% of posters are doing ?.
  17. rain_dog

    rain_dog Active Member

    Please forgive a dumb question (I'm not a ballroom dancer): What is 'the latin concept', and what does it have to do with dancing to argentine tango?
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  18. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    No rise and fall..The list of dances in the genre, from Bolero, Mambo, Son ,Salsa, Cha cha , Guaracha, Guajira, Danzon etc. of which not one ,has traditional R and F ( as in foot rise ) .Could one rise to the foot for a specific reason ?.. of course, but that ,not be a defining character of the genre, as it is in waltz ,for one e,g.
  19. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Well when one of them comes here and makes the same claim, I'll debate it with them. For now, it's just you here making the claim. Foot movements can be a technique and still be a style preference. You seem to be saying it's one or the other. That's simply not true, IMO.

    People sometimes debate ideas and opinions here. Dance is still an art, even if there are some technical aspects to it.
  20. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    I try to deal in facts NOT opinions. as a Pro. thats primarily what people pay me for . And, I dont know what you mean specifically by " foot " movements.?.. to accent a specific figure with an adornment, is window dressing, essentially ,styling.

    Of course " dance " is an art form . but that "form ", may only be realised,thru good technical application.

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