Discussion in 'Salsa' started by lundasalsa, Nov 20, 2004.
:lol: ...except for the fact that boriken is the primary salsa forum moderator... :wink: :lol:
Good to have certain privileges. :wink:
No doubt! :raisebro:
Resurrection of an old thread......
Just a thought as I was reading this tonight. Since beginning salsa about 9 months ago, I've learned many patterns. And while I have always tried to ingrain those patterns (rather, certain elements of those patterns--loops, CBLs, spot turns, etc) into my head, I have never felt that while executing those patterns I was being robotic or limited. I think this is compatible with what was said earlier in this thread... I have always danced with feeling and with energy towards the dance, the music, and my partner. Do many people begin dancing salsa and not feel this way?
I find it hard to believe that many out there begin dancing salsa and see it as merely a routine--however, now that I think about it there are those in class who show up, go out dancing every week, and seem content. Me, on the other hand--I have always breathed, dreamt, absorbed salsa. I'm always looking for ways to improve and ways to help my partner's dance experience. Does this leave hope for me as a non-pattern-dancer? As far as I'm concerned, I'm not--but then again, crazies are always the last to know it too--so, thoughts?
Yes some people do just that. Some leads don't feel the music/beat at all, but try to do all these complicated patterns. And some follows don't feel the beat at all, but insist on doing fancy styling. I strongly believe that teachers should have their students listen to ALOT of Salsa, Mambo, ChaCha before they start teaching patterns or styling. Only start patterns and/or styling when the student has the beat INGRAINED, even if it takes a year to get it.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to learn more patterns, but the pattern builds on the basic feel for the music, it doesn't replace it.
Sereno, don't change your usename... we get your meaning.
It's very common to add "El" to an adjective like sereno and have it understood that it's equivalent to "He who is serene". eg: El feo, El timido, El flaco, etc. are adjectives. Now, probably tranquilo is the everyday woed we would use for calm or quiet.
It likely would also be taken as the night watchman - like the guy who would walk by the neighborhood with his lamp saying "All is well!" That's why El señor Sereno would tell you to stop the rumba and go home to sleep.
El sereno is the humidity or dampness of the night air, not the morning dew which is "rocio".
I guess it's just hard for me to imagine anyone not getting and feeling the music. I'm in love with music though, so it's no shock that I feel that way. During class I'll find my foot tapping and have to stop it... I'm a musician and have always had trouble translating the rhythm I have into my body/feet, but I've always loved rhythm and while never owning a set of drums, can hear percussion in my head so well. It's good to know that I'm not one of "those" who do not reach into the music and really dance to it--thanks for the confirmation!
People have different goals than you salsa freaks.
What if I just wanted to pay $20, go to a lesson and learn how to go through a whole song without feeling like a total loser. Patterns are the fast food solution to dancing. I don't even need to know what the friggin' beat is. Musicality, bah, too much time. Isolations? Leave that crap for the experts.
I just want to go to a club and dance with someone without being uncomfortable - I learn a pattern. So I'll end up looking mechanical and stiff, but at least I am not sitting on the sidelines looking uncomfortable for the whole night. After learning 2 or 3 patterns, I have enough under my belt to go up to a girl, ask her to dance, go through my patterns six or seven times in a song, and have a good time.
When I go home, I have enough of a mnemonic device to practice and get the moves down. Maybe I'll figure out how much pressure I need to use to lead. Maybe I'll be able to add in my hip-hop moves into the dance.
Besides, without us stiff pattern dancers, you won't be able to show off your fancy afro cuban triple spins with sazon. Deep down, you love the fact that we are here to make you look good. Admit it!
:lol: :lol: brujo you crack me up as always
nice, can I quote you? :lol: 8)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: actually it's the other way around, they make you look decent, rescuing you out of your interminably mechanical motions, playing with you, "messing up" those perfectly perfect patterns, keeping you on beat(!!)
as has been discussed AD NAUSUEM on this thread, compared to the real thing, strictly pattern-dancing is not tantalizing to watch (or experience)
And you can definitely tell/feel the difference
I'm still at the pattern-dancing stage in my leading, but I hope to improve my responsiveness to music as time goes on
Yeah - I don't find it that easy. When I free-dance I can respond much free-er to the music, but with a partner in your hands, a crowded floor to navigate and a song you have never heard before... by the time you've recognised a break or a mood change, it is too late...
I guess the ballroom studios are a lot to blame for the pattern phenomenon - with their 3 minutes of each type of dance's patterns. The studio where we do ballroom (me on silver my wife on gold) has almost NEVER (except in choreographed exhibitions) focussed on the music. They'll fade out the song, even if a cresendo is building up!
So having come from that dancing background, and a listening to jazz and all kinds of world music background - I grabbed salsa with both hands, body mind and soul because of the freedom and spontineity! But it's still not easy to put that feel for the music into every dance. But wow! it is so great when you do get it spot-on!
'one should learn patterns'
because some leaders/followers like to dance in patterns or dont have much option not to..
any thing u learn adds to u.. so why not?
yet.. its all a matter of using what u know.. and that ends up being a matter of taste ..ie. depends
me, i think patterns are fine..so long as they serve musicality..
and.. adjust it to your style.. u control it..dont let it control you
Ps. Originality is flavor
yes, patterns are cool...
but please, if the music has stopped or gone down in rhythm, has gotten romantic, or is playing a different beat all of a sudden... STOP doing the same old combos you learned last week! Come on, hear the clave, hear the breaks, hear the trumpets, the piano... the congas! ... Dance to the music, give it flavor, be unique, close your eyes, and sweat like a mo fo, cuz you don't know if that's your last night in this world! 8) Just have fun! It's no fun when you're like a robot going: "pattern#3 here it goes... pattern#5.6variation#2 here it goes... pattern#12betatesting here it goes... etc, etc." :roll:
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