Salsa > Why would people dance NY style?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by brujo, Jan 11, 2004.

  1. capricorndancer

    capricorndancer New Member

    Wouldn't the first proposition lead logically to the second? Are servants to be trusted? Are creatures to be trusted? Are followers substantially different from servants, or other than servile? Is this the right place to be discussing a woman's place? In our or Confucious' era? Do followers serve leaders or the reverse, or neither; could it not simply be a continuous dialogue, or, as Boriken might put it, simply a state of being one?

    hmmm. Too long away from suger, me.

    CD
     
  2. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    :shock: holy smokes!.. i just took a look at the size of the posts here and that its 5 pages and i got a headache :lol: ..

    tell u what.. bottom line is..

    if u aint doin this... [​IMG] ... u aint getting my attention :wink: :lol:
     
  3. Lucretia

    Lucretia New Member

    Hi,

    I like many posts in this thread. They give me a lot to think of.

    But, the big BUT is that I have never ever seen anyone dance on-2. Do anyone of you have an example, a short videocut? (No broadband yet....it will come next week).

    I've really tried hard to understand when and how to break and step...but the discriptions doesn't make any sence
    How can you both step and break at 2?

    Yesterday I believed I did my first on-2 steps. It just happened…just like that. The music directed me. And since I was not connected to any partner - I was all alone in the house - I was able to hang on. It was a funny feeling when I found out my body changed the steps.

    But after reading this thread I’m unsure about what it was. Perhaps my very own on-2 ?

    /Lucretia
     
  4. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    hi Lucretia..

    i dont know if u can view it or not but www.mamboston2.com has a decent amount of short clips and u should definitely see on2 danceing there in the video gallery where there are NY Congress clips at least..

    now, i didn't get the chance to see many clips on there yet, but i assume you'll find there are alot of shines and solo action in the dancing.. which might still confuse u .. but conentrate on the parts where the dancers get together and partner dance which would give u a better feel for how it looks..

    i also think most of it will be Eddie Torres on2 .. that is 123 567 with the lead starting with his left on 1 (as in on1 salsa) BUT breaking back with right while follower goes forward with left on2 after also stepping on1 with her right (again as in on1 salsa)... and the opposite direction of that on the 6 of course..

    the other on2 - power 2 - is not the same because here the lead passes the 1 and 5 completely .. like the on1 salser@ passes the 4 and 8 and steps forward w/ left straight on the 2 (follower steps back w/ right) and breaks back w/ right on 6 (follower steps forward w/ left) on 234 678..

    can u picture the difference a little better? but thats not important for now.. as u can choose whatever feel natural for u later, but, generally, for an on 1 salser@ it'll feel like u are lagging a little behind the beat .. as if u are holding back a little in time.. yet.. as u get used to it.. it'll feel natural well enough..

    also it helps if u can here the different instruments playing in the music.. maybe thats why u sometimes feel u are on2 naturally .. because u hear an instrument more dominantly than the rest.. like the conga for example.. some songs will be felt on 2 without thinking because of how the music is structured and what instrument dominates the rythm more..

    well, my 2 cents anyway..
     
  5. MacMoto

    MacMoto Active Member

    The word "break" in this sense means (I think) taking a step away from -- i.e., breaking out of -- your home position, not pausing (I thought I'd say this just in case that's where your confusion comes from -- English is such a confusing language).

    There is a page on Edie's site that has charts showing different break patterns, including on1, Power2 and Eddie Torres on2.
    http://www.dancefreak.com/steps.htm

    As Sabor says, www.mamboston2.com is a good source of on2 video clips.

    What I tend to notice first when I realise a couple is dancing on2 is the timing of the crossbody lead, probably because it's such a visible move. In on2 dancing, the follower's walk along the slot happens on the 2 beat rather than the 5.
     
  6. Lucretia

    Lucretia New Member

    Sabor and McMoto,

    Yes I DID believe "break" meant taking a short pause.
    Confusing ...really.... :?

    I will view the videcuts you sent me, THANKS!

    /lucretia
     
  7. capricorndancer

    capricorndancer New Member

    Just to confuse the issue . . .

    Glad that your questions have been answered, Lucretia. I have one more thing to add: from a perspective of pattern, the major difference between the so-called on1 and on2 is where the pause comes in the pattern of steps.
    I say "so-called" because I was taught to break forwards on 1 (or 3), but to delay the third step: I step 1,2,..,4. I was mystified by the excitment on2 caused in Detroit when it arrived with the first congress there; I already had all the time that the Eddie Torres on2 provides, for styling and turns, etc.
    Thus, what I learned was the inverse of "power 2", as Sabor described it. It's all fairly moot anyway; from other discussions, it appears that musicians sometimes swap between rhumba and son clave rhythms, and in any case, many Salsa tracks don't have a consistent 2 beat to dance on . . . so, dance where you feel the rhythm, and try to make sure your follow, follows! That's the main point of it all, isn't it? Communication and coordination (oh, and reaching Nirvana, of course :wink: . . . )

    Ciao

    CD
     
  8. Lucretia

    Lucretia New Member

    Capricorndancer, MacMoto and Sabor,

    I understand now. I used Eddies pictures and figured it out. In theory ...
    Next week - when my broadband modem arrives and everything i settled for me to get full speed - I'll download the clips. I'm looking forward to it.

    I guess it well fell more natural after a few hours of practice. And a leader. A good leader seems to solve every problem for me right now.

    I have to confess myself to your idea Capricorndancer, "to Communication and coordination (oh, and reaching Nirvana, of course . . . ) "


    /Lucretia



    ps.

    Yesterday I did on-2, but the cuban style. If anyone care to know. (giggling a lot)
     
  9. rails

    rails New Member

    I'd be careful though. Good leaders often compensate for poor following. It "solves" the short-term problem of that dance, but in the long-run it can distort the follower's learning if she's not aware of what's going on.

    Not that I'm saying that's what's going on with you. I'm sure you're a fabulous follower.
     
  10. capricorndancer

    capricorndancer New Member

    Yeah, ditto to that; in days gone by, I was a very strong lead. A favourite of mine used to dance very well with me, or so I thought, then. She went and got married, and her husband wasn't nearly so confident about leading. Her dancing improved immensely over the following year, dancing mostly with him, I think because she had to learn to manage her own movements. Now, on the occasions we've danced, it's pretty amazing.

    CD
     
  11. Lucretia

    Lucretia New Member

    Capricorndancer & Rails, you are perfectly right!

    But in my learning curve I’m at the phase where I have to learn how to follow. The steps and my style is OK but I have problem to “trust” my own resources as a dancer AND the leader. I would like to trust both parts to perform well.

    (Right now I have problem to trust everyone including myself…but that has not to do with dancing. :cry: Salsa is a kind of therapy. :) )

    I guess the best thing now for me is to dance with good leaders OR my salsaclassmates who are evolving their leader capabilities and have the same pattern as me in their repertoire. One of these two things has to be fulfilled – either a good leader OR patterns in common – for me to feel comfortable at the dancefloor. Then after this “self confidence building phase” I will try all kinds of leaders.

    (I cannot manage strangers and absolutley not leaders that are on the dancefloor to impress or to do their "ordinary programmed routine" despite me telling them that I don't do doublespins. :evil: :twisted: )

    I believe I have capabilities to become a real good “dancer” and I will work hard on becoming a real good follower. But that part is much harder to measure.

    However I was really glad to see that my body changed to another “on” salsa just because of the music. But I will not confuse myself with dancing on-2 or power2 other than solo.

    And I'm happy to understand what you are talking about when you talk on-X

    /Lucretia
     
  12. capricorndancer

    capricorndancer New Member

    Salsa as Therapy

    But WAY more fun than conventional therapy, isn't it? You correct on all counts, though: one needs confidence to dance well, and much more to dance well with unfamiliar people. The friend I mentioned was always self-confident, and by the time she was getting married, was a confident dancer, too. Being appreciated and enjoyed makes for a lot of confidence, so your classmates are as good as any for that purpose. Even though I've been dancing for years now, I almost NEVER repeat a dance with someone who didn't enjoy dancing with me . . . and if I do, it's more because I know the person as more than just a dancer.

    You'll find your way to double spins in your own time, I'm sure, and to impressing people, whether you intend it or not :wink:

    CD
     
  13. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Well... it is dance related, isn't it? :wink:
     
  14. mambochino

    mambochino New Member

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