Salsa > World Salsa Championships Orlando

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Some Day, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. Beto

    Beto Active Member

    If anyone else wants to read more takes on the comp, including a view from a person who went there (a DF regular), head to this link:

    OT: Noobster, that link was awesome for a few reasons:

    1) I've never heard Celia speak English before so that was a pleasant surprise.
    2) I'm more familiar with Tito Rodriguez's version of the song and have a been a fan of it ever since Majesty in Motion used it for a performance in Palm Springs back on NYE 2004.
    3) That song is one of my favorites and one I never tire of.

    Thanks for posting the link!
  2. noobster

    noobster Member

    barrefly has put up lots of videos of his daughter on salsaforums if anyone is interested. I'm not going to get into a discussion of the specific claim made in this thread, except to say that Oliver and Luda were very very clean, mature, and polished dancers and I think those aspects of their performance would be very hard to replicate.
  3. Musique

    Musique New Member

    Anya is ballroom-trained. Her brother Eugene is the US amateur national champion.
  4. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Was. He and partner Maria Manusova were the 11-time undefeated US Amateur National Champions before recently turning professional.
  5. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Josh, I have posted a clip of Missy in a routine they had only rehearsed for 2 weeks that they performed at some sort of church fund raiser event, in the salsa video's forum. (please note the space and the quality of floor whcih forced them to nix some tricks...therefore the holes in the routine).

    The other clip of Missy with the blonde boy is also a routine they had only been rehearsing about a month. (Missy has only been dancing salsa for about a yr.).
    If Missy's partner was for it, I would love for them to have the opportunity to prove my point that it would not be difficult to nail the tech. aspects of such a simple routine. She will be performing this weekend, I will try to get some clips.

    If O/L's routine is what will be the standard for a world class 1st place routine, then a tremendous load has been lifted from our backs. Personally, I really beleive the standard will be more like the 2nd and 3rd place winner...but polished.
  6. SalsaTO

    SalsaTO New Member

    The Judges for the 3rd World Salsa Championships included:
    Miami's Billy Fajardo - Head Judge; Miami's Katie Marlow - Scrutineer; Montreal's San Tropez Dance School owner - - and Montreal Salsa Convention founder Sonia Kyriacou; Toronto's Steps Dance Studio Owner - and Canada Salsa Congress founder Jennifer Aucoin; possibly Puerto Rico's Tito and Tamara.

    All of them teach, some have competed, some have run competitions, some perform.
  7. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    For those interested, here is what the judges should be grading on...(thanks Josh for the link).

    Technique 10% - Reflected through balance, placement and line. Partners must reflect adequate "Latin/Salsa Motion" and "Isolations" as designated by the dance style. Movement should appear to be effortless. These are all reflections of good dance technique. Difficulty 10% - What was the level of the turns utilized? The amount of turns both double and single foot? By both parties or only one? How intricate were the shines? In the cabaret division, what was the difficulty of the lift-work? Was it properly executed? How about jumps, kicks?Any movements requiring exceptional balance, flexibility or strength? Were all movements attempted successfully executed? Difficulty can be ranked as follows for On-1 and On-2: A Level: Basic movement, no single footed turns, no multiple turns, no single leg balance elements, no splits, dips etc…. 0-5.9 B Level: Silver level salsa patterns, double turns, single pirouettes or variations of such, basic syncopations or shine movements, Basic Dips 6.0 – 7.9 C Level: Multiple Touch and Go Spot Turns, Intricate Multi-Level Hand Changes in Patterns, Single Leg Independent Balance Elements, Intricate Syncopations and Movement for Shine Patterns and Choreography, Intricate Dips or Flairs that do not leave the floor 8.0 -10.0.

    Connection / Partnering Skills 10% - How well did the couple work together as a team? Was there an actual Lead/Follow relationship established? How synchronized was the team during side-by-side movement or shines? Choreography/Originality 10% - How well put together was the performance? Did the routine flow easily from one movement to the next? Was there something clever or new that was part of the routine? Was musical was it? Appearance and Showmanship 10% - How professional and polished did the team appear to be? Did they project to the audience and capture their attention? Heat 10% - 10% of the couples score will reflect how they performed in a pure Lead/Follow heated format, ensuring that dancers truly possess knowledge of the dance.

    ...I wonder what O/L were scored on...
    Difficulty, Choreography, Appearance and Showmanship and Heat.
    P.S. ...isn't Billy Fajardo and Katie Marlow dance parnters?
  8. Stagekat

    Stagekat Member

    This sounds like a fantastic event! Wish I could be there!!! I'll have to see if I can arrange to be in town for it next time around...
    Is it too early to see who's going to be out for Chicago Salsa Congress? (Feb 14-17 2008 ) I just checked their tentative workshop scheduling...and it looks a lot more vaired than last year.
  9. Beto

    Beto Active Member

    Yes, they are. Or at least they have been at every congress I've seen them perform at since 2004. They usually come on together and demonstrate their hustle and lift technique and get a good reaction from the audience.
  10. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Beto, yes, I remember them. I seem to remember that Billy was also extensively ballet trained..(I may be mistaken).

    Noobster, clean tech. is hard to replicate as standing motionless for an hr. is, but it doesn't mean that by it's self, is fun to watch. (mybad).
    TECHNIQUE: 10%

    P.S. all are welcome to critique my daughter's dancing. (not her partner though, since I have no control over him), and those that tell me something I don't already know,.......I will be extremely grateful.
  11. I couldn't agree more with Josh!
    Salsa dancing used to be about elegance, sophistication and what Latinos call "sabor", i. e. that you show flavor in the way you dance. And that is exactly what Oliver has. And he actually *dances* non stop, he does not stop and stand in one spot to turn his partner a zillion times - like stiring in a pot (I just can't stand it when leads stop dancing while they turn their partners). I could not see much of that in Emily's and Junior's performance (i.e. elegance, sophistication, sabor). Actually, they did not dance, all they did was spins in one spot, well, they eventually changed places in the same spot, but that was about it. For my taste, it was just plain boring, yawn (they have great technique, no doubt, but still it is not enjoyable for me to watch them).

    Barrefly, if that is what salsa has become here in the US, then that is quite unfortunate. That is why I have lost all interest to go to any congresses.
    Not my cup of tea at all.
  12. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    The clips are up on Nuevotec. I have posted the link on the videos forum.

    salsa_alemana, I don't know about elegance (iin salsa?) and I think your definition of sophistication as it applies to salsa is different than mine, but I do agree with sabor. I however, question your opinion that O/L have the most sabor. My vote goes to J/E.
    Also, I was not comparing O/L's dancing to standing motionless. I was comparing a routine that is purely technical to "standing motionless".
    Compare O/L's routine this year to their routine last year. Quite a difference, do you agree?
    I am sorry that you are disenchanted with today's salsa. I think it is the most enjoyable of all the dance forms to watch. (..although Argentine Tango takes a close 2nd).
  13. barrefly,

    I am not disenchanted with salsa in general, I am just disenchanted with what many people nowadays think is good salsa. When I go to Puerto Rico, I can still see real good salsa dancers. And there are still real good Cuban style dancers around, too. This sounds like for me it is a matter of style. No, it is not. I also liked what used to be LA style (in the older days, I guess) but I really do not like what LA style has become: a spin contest to high speed music. They took the dancing out of it and made it a sports competition.
    The music is much too fast for any body expressions or elegant moves, the high speed dancers do not express themselves on the dance floor.

    For years people at congresses have been performing to the exact same type of music, everything sounds the same (fast mambo music) and kind of looks the same. Sometimes you even hear the exact same piece of music several times in the same competition, as if there was not enough music out there.

    I found this video clip (while looking for J.A.'s performance at the championship) as a good and positive example for an elegant and expressive salsa performance:

    I agree with you on AT!
  14. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    I agree with 99% of your post-- however-- the performance clip was (a ) to balletic for my taste and ( b ) still does not represent the truer " street " style ( and I know you know what I mean ) the music also was a little "hackneyed " for my taste---- and when oh when is someone going to dance to a Cuban Son rhythm .
  15. tangotime,

    I agree with you an the "balletic" aspect. This was just an example that came to my mind because I looked at this clip a couple of days ago. No, it does not represent "street" salsa style.
  16. dance234

    dance234 New Member

    I thought Eugene and Maria would hold that title until next year's nationals... no?
  17. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Technically yes, as in no one else "has" the title, but since they are no longer amateurs one could also make the argument that they are no longer the amateur champions. Not really much of an issue, especially as Worlds has passed for the year as well (where they did compete as amateurs a final time). It'll be interesting to see where they fit into the pro ranks this coming year, and I certainly look forward to seeing in what direction their dancing develops.
  18. noobster

    noobster Member

    Wasn't around in "the good old days" of which you speak but I totally agree with your point of view on this.

    I agree completely, which is why I think Jhesus/Maria should have won hands down. I don't think Oliver/Luda could touch them in the sabor factor, although their technique was cleaner. Nonetheless Oliver/Luda were more aesthetically pleasing than Emily/Junior for sure. I think of the four routines I watched I would have put Jhesus/Maria first (for most flavor), then Luis and Anya (next most flavor), then Oliver/Luda third (Oliver was pretty suave anyway, though not a 'groover'; as I said I wasn't impressed with Luda's body movement). I would not have placed Emily/Junior given their lack of style. I have noticed this is typical for very young dancers, that they just want to do fast moves and ignore the beauty, grace, and flavor that IMHO make a nice dance. Probably Emily/Junior will grow out of it, and when they are ready for the aesthetics they will have the muscle training to support them. But not yet.

    Btw you cut out the line that says the judging is 40% timing.

    Choreographed Routines Will Be Judged By The Following Criteria:

    Timing 40% - - Was correct rhythm maintained throughout the routine?
    Were syncopations deliberate and within the acceptable deviations of timing for the dance? As you can notice by the guidelines, the judges will be looking closely to the timing of the contestants. This criteria alone represents 40% of the overall score. Contestants will be judged from the moment they are on the dance floor whether it be the warm up period or the choreographed routine.

    We, the Salsa Seven, Inc have decided with the support of our Head Judge, Billy Fajardo and Katie Marlow our Scrutinizer, not to deduct points if you are dancing "On 1" and return by breaking "On 5". The same if you are dancing on " 2" and return by breaking on "6 ". If you were to return on any other beat than that mentioned you will be deducted points. The Head Judge, will make this decision depending how many times the infraction occurs in the routine and will determine the amount of points deducted.

    Be aware that you may look great and do some great steps and even do moves that the crowd will love, but if your timing is not consistent to your selected division, you will be deducted between 10% - 40% of your score.

    Technique 10%

    Difficulty 10% "

    I don't agree on such a heavy weighting for timing but if you stick to that it's true that Oliver/Luda were the most consistent in their timing (near as I can tell based on YouTube anyway). And as I said they were quite mature and polished in their dancing, definitely more so than most of the pros that I've seen.
  19. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    noobster,....How could I have not copied/paste "timing". (silly me). With 40% weight...certainly the most important.

    Someone that judges salsa events once said jokingly (I will not divulge who, even with a gun to my head) that if I don't like a contestant....I will just keep dinging them for timing.
    ADS and Alien were killed for their timing this year at the Mayan...(so I heard).
    Perhaps shmoozing the judges should be a catagory. LOL
  20. Big10

    Big10 Member

    I agree that many top L.A. dancers (Liz Lira, Olivia Dasso, Melissa Fernandez, Robyn Chance, etc.) could look good performing Luda's part of that routine -- but, honestly, your daughter still has a ways to go before reaching that level.

    No offense intended, and, actually, your daughter is a remarkable Salsa dancer for a 13-year-old. Emphasis on that last part. Salsa is more than just spins and duplicating steps. Salsa with sabor is about incorporating your entire body into the movement. So, barrefly, I would say that your daughter still has room for improvement on the way her body flows and her energy level during shines. Some of that will come simply with age and the maturation of her body. I wouldn't even want her to start learning some of the sensual aspects of her body movement until she is older and actually understands what she is doing. (Nothing creeps me out more than seeing young kids doing suggestive dance movements at an age when it's clear they don't comprehend them.)

    I'm glad that your daughter is focused on her dancing. I hope she always retains a love for the music, and tell her to keep up the great work with her spins, footwork, and following skills. Let her learn to develop some creativity in her shines. Just don't get her thinking that she's already at the level of world-champion dancers.

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