Salsa > World Salsa Congress Robbed!!!

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by brujo, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. tj

    tj New Member

    My opinion about congresses is pretty simple - go if you wanna go, stay home if you wanna stay home. And yes, I get annoyed with friends who try to put pressure on me to go simply because they have gone or want to go themselves.

    Personally, I think we're overinflating the ego and attitude issue at Congresses. I believe most dancers are actually more open to dancing with complete strangers at a congress because odds are that the other person knows what s/he is doing. Sure, I've encountered the occasional salsa snob at a congress, but no more frequent than in a regular night in a new scene - where an experienced salsera will think I must be a beginner since she doesn't recognize me.

    Do the "superstars" get a little too much adulation? Yes. Is there the tendency for all of us to stand around and watch them? Yes.

    But you're still free to do as you please. It's relatively easy to figure out who is nice and who is snobby/snotty. And I've met some lovely people at these sorts of things over the years (and while it wasn't a congress per se, I even met Dragon at a "Salsa Land Cruise" in Cancun a few years ago. And we're friends to this day.)

    What I like about congresses is that it's like your local scene distilled into it's most intense form. You could arguably do nothing but salsa for the entire weekend (too much for me, personally). When else can you do that? :shock:

    What I don't like about congresses is that most of them get too crowded. But hey, better crowded than empty!

    So the bottom line, IMHO, is do what you want/feel like. Go to a congress. Go to a new city on a regular night. Stay and promote your local scene. It's all good, and each have their strengths and weaknesses. You've got to experience it for yourself to decide what you like best.
  2. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Well said. 8) I think you're right. It's all good, as long as your get to dance. :wink: :D
  3. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Yes, I think attempted murder is more important than any financial loss. I'm just trying not to jump to any conclusions, here. Even having read through Mr. Torres' post, I can't be sure that murder was the intent. It sounds as if things happened very quickly. The ladies were trying to get away and Mr. Torres was in the way. Could have been an accident, with no bodily harm intended. So, until things are resolved in court, I can't draw any conclusion on that. But the theft appears to be pretty well documented. Who actually did what is a matter for the courts to decide, but the theft appears to be real. :?
  4. aragonh

    aragonh New Member

    I agree w/ TJ here.

    I personally think that going to congresses are great for one's dancing skills. You get to dance with many talented dancers and that is great especially if one comes from a small scene.

    I tend to encourage my friends to go, so that they can have fun and improve, but at times, Im thinking "Y bring sand to the beach". I will have as much fun at the congress by myself as within a group.

    Yeah, some dancers bring their own 'fans' so that it may seem that they have a crowd watching them. But you know what? I usually ignore them because Im usually dancing at the same time. I dont mind watching when Im resting, but honestly, I go to congresses to dance and have fun.

    I dont know if people are aware, but Albert Torres is not a rich dude. In fact, he goes into debt at the end of every LA Congress. But one wonders why do the Congress at all? Simply put, Albert Torres does it for the LOVE. His Show of LOVE for SALSA is just grand. I love salsa but I dont love it that much in going through all the hassle of organizing and going into DEBT for it YEAR after YEAR.

    ALbert Torres encourages dancers, performers, instructors and local scenes around the world. He took something that stayed mostly in Puerto Rico, New York, Cuba and Miami and spread it around. He shared the LOVE with others.

    And Hopefully even after this incident, His LOVE will be as strong as ever.
  5. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    I'm so glad to hear you say that. I don't know anything about him, but from what I've read in the past couple days, Albert Torres is the kind of person I'd like to be. It doesn't seem like his motivation is lining his pockets. It seems like he loves salsa, plain and simple. 8)
  6. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    Most people in fact DO lose money at those big events. I lost over $2000 for a salsa festival I produced in Okayama but everyone raved afterwards at how fun it was, how smoothly things went and how great the band was! That was worth it for me, and I'd do it again! I think Mr Torres and all his buddies are doing this from their hearts, and I applaud them!

    As for attending ANY event, it is a matter of preference. I prefer events with smaller groups, whether it be a wine tasting event or a dance party, and it doesn't matter whether I know anyone there or not. I'm there to meet new people & have a good time! :D
  7. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Yes, our studio lost money on an event recently, but it was a lot of much that I have volunteered to help lose money for the next event. :lol:

    It is bad what happened with the World Salsa Congress. I think the worst thing is there are a bunch of people walking around knowing they cheated the system. I have a feeling many won't be going to as many Salsa congresses, and it will be harmful (emotionally) to their future Salsa dancing.

    For all the people who knowing cheated the system so blatantly, what a shame! :evil:
  8. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    Yes, there are cheats and thieves everywhere nowadays, and one can't let one's guard down. It's hard knowing who to trust!!!
  9. salsachinita

    salsachinita New Member

    What goes deeper into this behaviour, is that negative human nature comes into play.

    There are always people who are willing to cheat the system, ANY system, because (1) it seems like a victimless crime (2) everyone is after a bargain, but there's a difference between being tempted & actually ACTING upon it (3) not everybody share the view of salsa as a 'big picture', which explains the 'take & run' attitude.

    I suspect there are people out there who knew about the deal but chose NOT to take it (while keeping it quiet).

    TJ is fantastic with his social observation, as usual. And thankyou, Aragonh, for the insight :notworth: .
  10. dragon3085

    dragon3085 New Member

    I wonder if the people who bought the faux passes really knew what they were getting. I don't think its fair to hold the consumer responsible for security of products. I deal with this in the IT world a lot in the form of software piracy. My main aurgument with a company like say adobe is that if mom and pop go the compusa and buy photoshop it not their resposibilty to make sure the copy is legit. Its compusa's and adobes job to make sure only authentic copies are sold to the consumer. Same here, it wasn't the people who bought the passes job, to play 20 questions and try to ascertain if they were legit.

  11. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    As a concept i understand and agree with what you're saying Patrick. That being said, if it were me I would've had no doubt that such an offer was not legitimate... as I think would hold true for most North Americans at the least (i.e. I could see why someone from a differenet culture might not have thought anything was amiss).
  12. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Yes. I agree that the people who stole and sold the passes bear the biggest share of the responsibility, but, at least where I'm from, the concept of under-the-table scalped tickets is pretty common. I suspect many people knew that something was amiss, although you're right, dragon3085. Some might not have known. :?
  13. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    If I go purchase my adobe photoshop out of the back of a truck across the street from compusa...I am gonna asume it is not legit.

    (I actually prefer corel by the way...)
  14. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Also, just to follow up on an earlier point, I think there's little doubt that almost running Albert over is the far greater wrong. At the same time, however, that does not have current and lasting logistical repercussions for him as an event coordinator whereas recouping any funds he can and generating cash flow both do…and hence the general focus on those aspects.
  15. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Exactly. He needs to be able to pay the bands and other vendors ASAP, to preserve his good name and be able to organize more events later. Most of those bills probably came due on the day of the event.
  16. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah, and there's always seed money needed for the next event. Deposits on hotels, etc, are often paid months or even a year in advance, to hold the dates.
  17. aragonh

    aragonh New Member

    Never Lose Hope!!

    THanx for the compliment salsachinita.

    While yes it sucks that there is a negative nature to ALL human beings. WE should never lose HOPE in them.

    Because, correct me if Im wrong, doesnt it take two to Salsa??

    I want to share my Congress04 experiences on this thread (and maybe start a new one) so that people can offset the bad with the good:

    1. I want to visit Houston!!! That place seemt to have a big scene. The people I dance with were awesome!!!!

    2. I want to go back to Seattle. I met up with my friend Sasha and boy do I miss her smile!!!!

    3. I have to hit up on San Diego some time soon. The dancers were just awesome (It didnt hurt that they looked good either!!!)

    4. Thanx to the Congress, my friend met up with some people from Boston, of which he is visiting this weekend on a business trip. I know hes happy to find some people to go dancin with later on tonight!!!!

    5. Finally, (to keep it short), I want to thank Dance-Forums for posting this thread up. I read it and was shocked and shared it with my friends who went. One of them happen to be staying at the Inn and witnessed the incident at the place. At the time, he thought they were joking around (he was a little buzz, so please dont blame him). When he realized what really happened and the seriousness of it, he immediately contacted Albert and said he would be a witness if he needed one.

    So you see, while there are bad apples in every barrel, It is the good ones that come out in times of need.
  18. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Heya aragonh, regarding #3, please let me know if you're ever going to be in the area! As far as #5 I'm very, very happy to hear that something "positive" for Albert might arise though this discussion... that's fantastic news indeed! :D
  19. aragonh

    aragonh New Member

    Thanx SDSalsa, i dont know when it but i;ll be sometime this year. (First will have to go to New York, and hopefully to Puerto Rico!!)
  20. youngsta

    youngsta Active Member

    The thing that really surprised me about everyone's reactions is that this is so normal in our society. Scalping of tickets for sporting events, concerts, or any other event happen hundreds of thousands of times daily and most don't even think anything of it. The people that buy those scalped tickets, everyday normal folks like you and I, aren't branded like they're some kind of bad apple. Plain and simple it's accepted in this coutnry. Nothing more than "hey I got a deal." So even though I think it's messed up that Albert lost money, I'm neither surprised our outraged. Happens all the time.

    Getting rundown by a car on the other hand is a WHOLE different ball of wax.

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