Tango Argentino > young tango dancers at your milongas?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by larrynla, May 8, 2009.

  1. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    TangoB, for starters, can you imagine an authentic argentine tango instructor who for 6 straight months keeps a young, talented, athletic woman on private lessons only and away from milongas?
    I would say -- please, beginner ladies out there, if you meet somebody who does that to you -- run.
     
  2. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    First, I said "no references to my daughter".

    Secondly, why is everyone changing the subject?
    If you aren't interested in joining in on the debate,....simply do not post, would be my suggestion.
     
  3. Tango Bellingham

    Tango Bellingham New Member

    If you're in California, Robert's closer in Portland, of course. And in Portland, you'd also have Alex Krebs, who is another brilliant dancer and teacher.

    Ricardo and Miriam Pincem:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mekNwq3AW4E&feature=related

    Read the comments, especially Detlef's about how he'd like to be able to dance this well.

    Oscar Casas' memorial to Ricardo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx6eDKvCmXI&feature=related

    What aspects? How about 64 years of LIFE experience, how about tons of things you can't see from the outside but can only feel in the embrace and walk? Watch Oscar's tribute again, and try to understand what it is we've all been trying to convey to you here.

    Can you understand why many of us can only dream about dancing as well as this man?
     
  4. Tango Bellingham

    Tango Bellingham New Member

    Uh, I didn't say to keep her on private lessons only, barrefly did. Of course I'd toss her into the deep end of the swimming pool, so to speak, as soon as I got the chance, as I imagine Robert, Alex, Detlef, and anybody else would. After all, the whole point is dancing socially, which is where I think barrefly has conceptual difficulties.
     
  5. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Barrefly, the whole thing is, that you don't SEE good social AT, you FEEL it.
    Someone may LOOK fantastic, but FEEL like nothing.

    Then there is NICE social AT, which is what most people dance. And, then there is knock your socks off social AT.
    Again, you can't see what people feel.
     
  6. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Oh, I know that you know how it is really done. I just wanted to point that out as a strange thing in the initial hypothetical conditions that were presented to us.
     
  7. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    Which barrefly's daughter (or even himself) would understand if either actually tried it for real instead of doing a few private lessons to learn the tricks. If one's goal is just to perform, then no reason to social dance. Of course what's performed won't be authentic. But if one doesn't care about authentic, then sure, go do a few years of private lessons and jump around on stage with a passionate glare in a black and red outfit.
    If one wants to get good at a social dance, one has to social dance that social dance. Using the knitting metaphor from before. Doing another social dance doesn't matter. I'm fabulous at crochet but can't knit even with my great yarn handling skills that I learned in crochet. It's not just AT either. I know a few awesome salsa dancers that can't foxtrot worth a flip. And I do a nice waltz, but suck at salsa. (Of course maybe if I had a stage dad paying for my lessons and was half my age, maybe my dad could argue that reality is different than it really is.)
     
  8. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    I don't. From my expereince with people with lots of private training\dancing with only one person what would happen would be this: I would offer my left hand, she would would step into the embrace, and her left hand would start to drift somewhere she is accustomed to have. I would close my right arm around her back, and try to feel her breathing and get in synch with it, and instead of us relaxing into each other and wait for us to be moved by the music there would be a buildup of tension as she waits for the first step instead. Over the first dance we would slowly negotiate the embrace, and the distance we dance with each other, especially after moves that are a little bit more open, like giro's, with her being slightly overbearing because she is accustomed to one specific embrace. The rest of the tanda would be either ok if she had great teachers, or awful if she had merely good ones, because leaders, even top pros, become predicatable in their leading.

    Gssh
     
  9. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    I remember, many moons ago, I was invited ot take a "free personality test". After completing the test, the tester told me I was an unhappy individual. I then told him, "No, that's not true, I am a very happy individual". He replied, "the test shows otherwise. I then said "the test is wrong". He replied that the test was created by Columbia University professers, I then repleid, "those Columbia University proferssers are wrong". He then got very angry an told me, "if I am not interested in being happy, then I should just leave." So, I happily went on my way.
    Moral of the story,..."You can't B.S. a B.Ser".
     
  10. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    It is perfectly fine if anyone rejects social dancing.
    In fact I rarely ask the young women to dance because, well, there is a high probability that they are looking for something else.

    Young Spock asks Spock Prime if he lied.
    Spock Prime responds, more or less, "I allowed him to infer."

    And on the original subject of this thread...
    I find the young women of AT to be much less open socially than young women at country western venues.
    Go figure.
     
  11. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    No such premise was established. If you need a premise, How about...."there are no Milongas in their area, with a young enough crowd, that they would enjoy themselves." They love to social dance, but with those that they can "connect with".
    Like dancing with someone they could have a good time with?
    (I hope you aren't implying something distasteful. This young girl is the top youth latin dancer in the U.S.,...she just might slap your face. LOL).
     
  12. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    I have danced with a world champion level ballroom latin/rhythm dancer of this caliber, (maybe better). Despite her titles, and expertise, her argentine tango did not feel right... at all. Because of this, it did not look right. It was clumsy and awkward. She knew some really, really good routines, she knew canned moves, she did some really cool tricks (all on auto pilot) but that was about it. Most of what she did felt contrived. The dance was devoid of genuine feeling. It was an excercise in skill.

    It was her first milonga. She sat for the rest of the evening.

    I do have to say that we became friends and she asked for tips here and there about what she was doing wrong. She admitted that even she could see that what she was doing was not tango. She's ok now.
     
  13. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Gssh, that's just techique....Daniella would have no problem with A.T. technique...I am quite certain.
     
  14. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Hmm Steve that's an interesting comment about the C&W . Why's that do you think?

    I havent danced with real youngsters for a while but on the few occasions I have I've found that
    a) they think of AT as a ballroomy kind of dance. They tend to adopt a ballroom open hold and they're very light in the embrace
    b) they're not generally mature enough to enjoy the flirting and fun of tango
    c) they focus on the technical aspects rather than the connection

    I'm not saying that all youngsters are like this. But those have been my observations so far. I guess that's why I prefer to dance with girls who are in their thirties and beyond.
     
  15. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    I want to be convinced that it was her, and not you, that was the inferior social dancer. For some reason,....under the premise outlined,...I don't see this being the case with Daniella.
     
  16. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Captain Jep, unless my premise was to actually play out,...I am at a loss to refute A.
    However, all you have to do is look at the clip to refute B., and C., Daniella is a world class dancer. Connection is something that is techinically and emotionally ingrained in her since she was a wee little one.
     
  17. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Wow! The posts are coming thick and fast on this thread...

    Are you being "ageist" here? What makes it a "good time" for a young dancer? My guess is "hot boys" (of their own age) or "people who look cool"/"have cool moves". Sure, you'll get some of those at any social dancing venue. But for us err "more mature" individuals we dance AT with young and old alike. We dont judge the book by its cover. And - as has been said elsewhere - what we prize most of all is someone who "walks well". Ridiculous isnt it? But that's why AT is unlike many other social dances...
     
  18. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    LOL...Captain Jep,...it's heck getting old, ain't it? (I'm 52, myself).
     
  19. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Hi barrefly! Sorry to have to say this but I cant see anything "connected" in that BR performance. She's playing to the crowd. She might as well be dancing in the mirror.

    Im sure technically it's good BR. But that's it.
     
  20. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Connection is a very important component in competive latin dancing. Perhaps you can try to convince the judges that these young dancers, lack connection. (Maybe, A.T. connection is different..right?)

    ...sorry for the wave of posts. I only have a short time. I have to coach my 9 yr. old. (acting). She's auditioning for Saving Grace tomorrow. (Is that a good show?...I've never seen it).
     

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