Tango Argentino > young tango dancers at your milongas?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by larrynla, May 8, 2009.

  1. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    AT connection is different from latin. One of my instructors was a latin champ and now does some AT. So in other words, she's done both AT and latin. She'll tell you it's totally different. But then again, what does she know? She may have been there and done that, but you have looked at countless youtube videos. So I'm sure you know much better than her.
     
  2. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Heh - are these judges like the Columbia University professor you talked about earlier? :cool:

    Gotta go too - to catch my beauty sleep - good luck with the auditions!
     
  3. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    barrefly,

    Now why do you have to call anyone inferior? Why do you even have to suggest that I am the one who is inferior? :nope: Anyway, dancing AT is not a contest. We dance it for the sheer love of its beauty and elegance.


    Steve Paster was right when he said it was about FEEL. the lead has to be felt in order to make a tango happen.

    Her problem (by her own admission) was that tango (AT) was so different than what she had thought, and how she was trained. Her epiphany happened when we were at a milonga and there was a ballroom couple trying to do their tricks. EVERYONE, including her saw it was silly and laughable. They tried to do their idea of an AT, but the nuances were very apparent and could not be missed.

    She learned to do one of the basic principles of tango in that she learned to "let go" and follow. We worked on some technique, posture, etc. It was complex by its simplicity.

    = = = = = = = = = =

    I have another lady friend I've danced with. She was also a world class latin/rhythm dancer. She retired from competition 3 years ago at her prime. Anyway, her tango did not feel right either. Posture was off, stiff, cold, technically very good. She knew her moves. But, you wouldn't want to dance with her again. At least not a tango, salsa and swing yes. It's easy to wing. Not AT

    = = = = = = = = = =

    Both of these ladies are professionals, they make their living on the int'l ballroom circuit. They are good friends of mine, but not AT dancers.

    Both are in agreement that they would be leary to be good at AT because the requirements to look good in AT, are so different from their BR that it would affect their BR, which is their primary source of income. Hence, they're AT looks and feels "Ballroomy" at best. They do have gotten better over time dancing at milongas. Their no longer beginners, and are on the road to feeling right.

    BTW, one was a Blackpool veteran.


    = = = = = = = = = = =

    The best one of all...

    I dance with this one lady. First thing out of her mouth in a sexy Slavick accent, "I am the undefeated latin/rhythm US Champion, " I said "I know." She could not follow a simple tango walk. I would pause because of the music, and she would do "stuff." She would do un-led boleos, unled ganchos. She was anticipating, and I could feel her thinking, and waiting for signals. She wasn't following. It was bad. I had to say "Thank you."

    I checked, and she was indeed the undefeated US latin/rhythm champion. She should stick to her BR performances, and competions. I told my ballroom friends about her, and they chuckled and said, "Yup, that's O...... She's a high maintenance diva/*****."
     
  4. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    IS there such a thing a stage country western, or performance country western?
    I know people compete, but....

    Have you seen the reception country western dancers get on So You Think You Can Dance?

    I just don't think of it as anything that anyone would do to ...um... challenge themselves as a dancer who wanted to.... um.... excel as a dance professional.
     
  5. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Exactly.
     
  6. Tango Bellingham

    Tango Bellingham New Member

  7. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I'm planning another trip to Vegas next week to meet my brother, and, as some of you may know, there's a big country western place there called Stoney's which has replaced Gilley's at the New Frontier as THE place to go for CW dancing.
    (They imploded the New Frontier to make way for a newer, bigger, no doubt more expensive development. Elvis first played Vegas in 1956 at the New Frontier. He bombed.)

    There's a new Stoney's now out in a part of town where a friend of mine lives, and I was checking out their web site and write ups about it.

    During my first two years of AT, I took a lesson in Vegas from a couple who had been with Cirque, etc. I've looked for somewhere to dance AT there, and AT in Vegas looks like.... performance AT. What else would you expect in Vegas?

    On the other hand I once spoke at some length with a violinist who was playing a live show in the Food Court at Excaliber (back when they were still doing that - now there are big screen TVs with sports where the stage used to be). They played a song that I recognized as a tango, but couldn't quite place, as one of the numbers in the "show".
    She LOVED AT music because the violin parts were so beautiful.
    Paris (casino) had hosted an AT convention where she had been exposed to the music.
     
  8. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    It is different from strict technique - the best comparison i can make is the difference when you do a drill like chi sau with somebody who sees it as developing a toolkit for a fight, and somebody who studies martial arts as a historic/cultural/artistic endeavour. There are people who have the outer form perfectly down, but their energy is wrong. This is what my SO calls "annoying tango mysticism", and it is easy to call it BS. I don't think anybody needs to believe that there is a intellectual and emotional inner technique. But i would like to point out that tango dancers are amazingly consistent in the way they talk about it, no matter where they dance, no matter why and how they started. Considering that in this forum we have multiple countries represented, multiple lineages of teaching and learning - from people studying in BA to people who insist that London tango is completely its own thing, and that some of us would probably not even enjoy dancing with each other because our preferences in music and style of dancing are quite varied i consider the idea that tango is a worldwide elitist conspirarcy designed to annoy other dancers quite unlikely. What do we have to gain? We don't have competitions. We barely have performances outside of a few shows that completely pale compared to what you can see at the average swing meet or salsa congress. We don't have dedicated venues like the C&W crowd. We don't usually show up at ballroom socials to show off our version of tango. Sure, this is the internet and anybody can say anything, but why would we sit here and be cliqueish and claim something just to annoy people? Especially as this is the AT board - we are not even proselytizing, this is our home. There is no outgroup. There is nobody here who is not interested in tango. I mean, sure, when some of us jump into the ballroom board and start talking about the magnificence of the one true tango they are completely right to be annoyed with us, but this is not one of the times. Really, we can't even agree if the 8CB is an abomination or a useful teaching tool, and that is everybodies first tango lesson, so the worldwide connection conspiracy seems kinda far fetched to me.


    Gssh
     
  9. larrynla

    larrynla Member

    Over 50 years of dancing I've dabbled with maybe three dozen social dances. All but one of those were rhythm dances - tied to a set rhythm. The most skilled or daring dancers fool around with the rhythm, but mostly to the extent of slowing the slow steps or speeding up the quick steps. But never to the point of abandoning the rhythm entirely.

    The tango is the only dance I know of which is rhapsodic - less formal, more fluid, less tied to rhythm. This doesn't mean it has no rhythm: the basic rhythm is slow-slow, an easy walking pace. But the leader has enormous latitude in using this rhythm. He can speed up or slow down on any step, and the steps can be very very quick, or very very slow - so much that he stops completely for (other dancers hope!) brief moments.

    People coming from other dances have the most trouble with this aspect of tango, especially women. Habits involving the embrace are also hard to change. Complete social dance beginners often find it easier to get up to speed in tango than those who have hundreds of little habits they have to change.

    But it's not impossible for experienced social dancers to become good tango dancers. They just have to realize that no matter how wonderful they are in other dances tango is DIFFERENT, something that for most of them is alien at some basic level.

    I remember in my first year of learning tango there was a couple who were both medical doctors, experienced ballroom dancers, who were having a lot of trouble with tango. One night, right in the middle of practicing one figure, they stopped. At almost the same instant they looked at each other and one of them said, Ohhh! And the other nodded her head. From then on it was as if two strangers had taken over their bodies. They moved completely different.

    I asked them what had happened and they smiled and said I'd just have to find it out on my own. Very frustrating. But several months something very similar happened to me. And I felt enormous relief and a feeling of great freedom and relaxation.

    Laer Carroll
     
  10. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    barrefly:

    Trust us. Take up tango yourself and discover what we're talking about. Not the ballroom tango. But real argentine tango. Learn from a real argentine tango teacher. Feel it. Live it, and FEEL the difference.
     
  11. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Imagine, now everyone is being civil to me. Thankyou.

    ...and thankyou Captain Jep for the "good luck". Gigi is on a roll this week. (She shoots a commercial next week, on avail. for another, she's up for a Feature Film role as a young Marisa Tomai, and tomorrow, she has her Episodic audition. Now, "Gigi" is low maintenance,....I wish Melissa was more l like her.

    Anyway, there is a great deal of "food for thought" for me to glean over. I promise I will read all your posts, and give each a great deal of thought.

    Also, the Father Daughter clips really hit a nerve. I would very much love to learn how to dance, but there is something that is very painful for me to share. I very much want to learn to dance. (..but, I only have one leg.).

    ...Just kidding. Though, that probably wouldn't be as painful for me to deal with. Perhaps things will change for me in the near future.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBK7XW2L_Yg
    I've met this guy. ....he's a wonderful person.
     
  12. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    Imagine, now barrefly is bragging about his kids again.
     
  13. larrynla

    larrynla Member

    Uhmh, I thought we were not supposed to attack other members of this forum.


    Laer Carroll
     
  14. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    larrynla, I PM'd you. :)
     
  15. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    :notworth: So true, so very true.
     
  16. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    .
    wooh, can I give you a little advice? Don't take the "Free personality test".
     
  17. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    I must agree with most of the past day's posts.

    1. barrefly's clip of the 16 yr old is good, but no......
    2. tech skills in one area do not always translate well to another (as Amps pointed out).
    3. she will be able to understand and possibly learn some of the technique, but to master it, or even be proficient at it, in 6 months...not a shot.
    4. she has no...zero...zip...zilch...nada connection with her partner (and I am an adjudicator)

    There is some seriously good advice on this thread, and I really believe that we should ease up, now, and hope that Barrefly is serious about going back and reading it. Perhaps, it's b/c I am a counselor, but I see stuff here that could not change his opinion about AT, but change an opinion about how he views some things in life.

    Gssh, as always, thanks for some great posts.
     
  18. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    :kitty:
     
  19. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Her tango feels crappy to you...how do you know that your salsa and swing don't feel crappy to her?
     
  20. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Prolly does. *shrug* So what?
     

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