Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by opendoor, May 15, 2009.
Not to get the things confused: What do you think, is an Enrosque a figure, or an adorno, or both?
I think it is an element of movement. An element which, like all others, may be exaggerated for visual effect.
Unless I am confused about what you are calling an Enrosque, I would say it is an adornment because it doesn't change the step being done by the couple.
Ah... see I am thinking of it in terms of a unique element in that it is a stationary rotation while keeping both feet on the floor, and eventually the foot leaves the floor out of necessity, not out of decoration, which creates enrosque... but that this free foot can embellish this action.
Maybe I'm thinking too hard again.
Thats why i have been not saying anything - i am not able to figure out what the unique element is - is the "stationary rotation" a adornment of the "rotating while stepping it", or a unique element? I know off the cuff half a dozen ways or so to do the rotation, stepping, stationary till the foot leaves the floor (in 2 variations: the foot races ahead powered by a noticable snap from due to the dissociation, or the foot leisurly catches up while the body gently unwinds), rotating on one leg, rotating on one leg and using the other leg to "push", starting from a cross, and twisting out of the cross into the opposite cross. And i have no idea which ones are fundamentally different from each other and which ones are not.
For follwers defining adornments is relatively easy - anything that has no effect on the lead/follow is a adornment, i.e. if the leader (at least theoretically) can't tell the difference between two "moves" then the more complicated one is an adornment.
If I used the same definiton (if there is no difference for the follower) for leaders adornments i would have to consider a whole lot of very different body mechanics as essentially the same figure, and i am not comfortable with that. *shrug* So, this is my longwinded way of saying that i don't know the answer
Enrosque From enroscar, to coil, twist, or screw. To pivot on one foot while hooking the other foot behind or in front, usually while the woman is executing a molinete.
Lapiz - Pencil: Tracing of circular motions on the floor with the toe or inside edge of the working foot, while turning or waiting on the supporting foot. These may vary from small adornments done while marking time to large sweeping arcs which precede the lady as she moves around the man in molinete. See Dibujo, Firulete, and Rulo.
It looks to me like a lapiz is a mandormant.
And an enrosque is almost a necessity to accompany the woman's movement.
Hmmmm... I was thinking of the Lapiz part when I wrote my post. And I like your term "Mandormant" (even if it does seem to imply a guy sleeping on the couch... I think it needs an "n")
The enrosque part as you describe it is not neccessary since he could actually take steps rather than pivot, however, he does have to do SOMETHING or she goes around him while he stands still....
I thought it was a good idea to put together a list of tango terms. So all of this stuff comes from various sources. I try not to change anything, just add information if it comes from what I consider to be a good source.
I may go mandormant for a short time this evening, since I had a big night out last night. When I wake up maybe, I'll practice my mandornments.
No, my idea now after reading all your comments is, that one could do several little steps instead of enrosque to get into the same position. But, the enrosque is an eyecatcher. So I think it got more of an adorno than of a step.
True, but in my thinking, enrosque is an element that stands on its own because it practices an economy of movement...
So yesterday we made DF history by introducing the use of two new terms: adornoficate (verb): the act of creating adornments - and mandornment (noun): adornment created by the lead.
Might one also mandornoficate?
Wasn't the definition of adornoficate "adorning to excess?"
LOL.... We must need some new topics when we get to the point of debating the proper definition of totally made-up terms!
"Tangofardo"- translation: tangslang
IMO the movement is pivoting as the woman takes several steps in a giro so your hips arrive facing toward the way you exit; but it can be done in a way that is showy; so both
IMHO, I'd say neither. It's like an "Ocho." It's neither a step nor a figure—Its a way of walking. In this case, the "Enrósque" (at least how and what I use it for) is a lead for initiating either a molinete, or for me to walk backwards.
The partner is not leading it, and it does not lead anything to the partner, then it's an adornment.
The above post was my 1000th
All in all this is an enormous amount of irrelevant, bad faith, uninformative statements by little me.
I'm not sure I understand your distinction... Isn't ALL of tango dancing just ways of walking? (with some fancy doo-da thrown in here and there)
There are combinations of steps (ie: figures?) and there are individual steps. If an ocho isn't a step, but a way of walking, then so is a molinete', since its comprised of ochos. A sacada could be a way of walking (distinguished by WHERE one walks) etc...
We talk about "The Walk" being the most important part of the dance and the hardest thing to perfect, but the things that make it hard to perfect are ALSO nessessary for a perfect "anything else". Its just easier to see that stuff ISN'T perfect when you are doing a basic simple walk. All of the fundamental elements that make "The Walk" what it is are still there in everything else.
So we mistakenly believe "The Walk" is harder to do perfectly. Its really just that there's nothing masking it... it has nothing to hide behind, so imperfections are more obvious. But in truth, its no easier to do more complicated "walking" (or anything else) perfectly either. If your walk isn't perfect, then your other stuff isn't either.
So how could we characterize a led gancho or boleo? Its not a "step" because it doesn't go anywhere (it doesn't imply a change of weight from one leg to the other, but rather is "play" with the free leg).. we're saying its not an embellishment if its led, right? And it isn't walking....
Do we need a catagory for "couple adornments"? ie: non moving decorations that the leader leads, but that are not part of the "walking dance"?
First of all, Zoops, your post is quite good.
Secondly, the enrosque is a step (a movement) that can be adorned if desired. Makes for good discussion, but not rocket science.
this discussion reminds me of biology.
" A tortoise is a turtle but not all turtles are Tortoises'
a step is a movement but not all movements are steps
and then here are people that move like turtles, you definitely don't want to dance behind them
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