ABC's Definition of Tango

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
a) when you dance standard long enough...it feels natural...some days I have to flex those back muscles just b/c my soul yearns to
b) this thread is better with wine
c) I like the notion that most intentional movement to music, interior or exterior music, is dance but it is debatable as to whether or not it is truly representative to the integrity of a given style...and like all other huge debates (like, say...theological ones, it ain't gonna be solved in this lifetime).....
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
oh...and d) I am running to whatever hill max is going to ;)
Holy crap. Write this date down for posterity, ladies and gentleman. F and I are actually NOT running after the same guy.

(Nothing against you, Max, you understand? It's just that Ampster tangoes...and I've been wanting to meet and dance with him for about 2 years now. ...and he's got popcorn...)
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
I've had my head chopped about that ballet thing before...but stand by it. Re latin movement (cuban motion), I teach that, in its simplest form, it is very natural...it is the movement of going 'up' a flight of steps;
with the weight resting on one side, place the ball of the movign foot on the upper step; press down through the leg, literally lifting yourself onto a straight leg; having acheived the fullest extension of the movement, rest into or onto the new supporting hip/leg, and repeat beginning with the next step. Standard is just rolling over the foot; partially or entirely and to what degree...again, quite natural, but I understand your point.

BR frame...you said it best..."there ain't a damn thing that's going on naturally ..." Finding a deeper place to hide.....
I see what you're saying about cuban motion and standard movement being natural, but here I'm going to quote delamusica at you:

actually based on the most basic natural movements. But it is so extremely stylized that it has become an artistic exaggeration of natural movement.
It might have it's basis in natural movement, but, um...what crack are you smoking that any of it feels natural? Because, really, can you pass it my way?
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
Holy crap. Write this date down for posterity, ladies and gentleman. F and I are actually NOT running after the same guy.

(Nothing against you, Max, you understand? It's just that Ampster tangoes...and I've been wanting to meet and dance with him for about 2 years now. ...and he's got popcorn...)
I hate popcorn...and I'd rather feather
 

Zhena

Well-Known Member
Will inject here, some cultural info, in respect of foundational existance.

One archivist, states that the root beginnings, were possibly of English origin found in the " Contredanse ", originating in 17th cent. England, moved to France ,and then was transported to Cuba, and merged with Habenera , gradually moving down to Rio de la Plata.

:shock:
I absolutely CANNOT wrap my mind around this concept. English "Contredanse" as a documented origin of AT? What could possibly be the connection between the two, other than movement to music? What I know of documented examples of English Country dance from 17th century England are "prim and proper" set dances (think Jane Austen) where the only connection between partners is at the fingertip, the steps are essentially trivial, and the focus is on the patterns made on the floor and the interactions between all the people in the set, not just one's designated partner (how DOES one describe a set dance? ... I'm stumped). I would be fascinated to know what aspects of the dance were "merged with Habenera" in order to produce the origins of AT. Wow... and wow again ....
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
:shock:
I absolutely CANNOT wrap my mind around this concept. English "Contredanse" as a documented origin of AT? What could possibly be the connection between the two, other than movement to music? What I know of documented examples of English Country dance from 17th century England are "prim and proper" set dances (think Jane Austen) where the only connection between partners is at the fingertip, the steps are essentially trivial, and the focus is on the patterns made on the floor and the interactions between all the people in the set, not just one's designated partner (how DOES one describe a set dance? ... I'm stumped). I would be fascinated to know what aspects of the dance were "merged with Habenera" in order to produce the origins of AT. Wow... and wow again ....
And I ran across something the other day almost entirely attributing the foundations of the dance as coming from African slave rhythms/dances.

So, so far we've got, contredanse, slave dances, men dancing with each other while waiting for prostitutes (ran across that somewhere else), men dancing with prostitutes... I wonder what other historical bases for AT we can come up with.
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
I dance, and teach several different " styles " in the partenership world .

Defining " natural ", simply put-- that which is " natural " to the task at hand .
I can make arguments for some un natural feeling , in most any dance you care to name .

2 items--- there is a very well defined tome, on T/A, written by a former world champ. in the genre. It lists 150 plus variations , that virtually every one uses . ( even in Argentina )

In respect of the reference to C.Danse-- that was taken from the works of a noted dance historian . It ( tango ) travelled a long and arduous path, before reaching its current status.

For those of you not old enough ( probably 99% ),
I personally, have witnessed dance evolution in the latin genre , as well as the " swing " genre .

The developement of Rumba ( a generic term ) from Danzon to todays watered down versions of Mambo / Salsa and Intern. style Rumba etc. seem to bear no relationship, to their past form .


One could , of course ,make the same claim, in many, if not all, of the partnership dances .

Many of the changes that have been brought about, are primarily due to the change in musical composition . This is strongly evidenced in 95 % of all the genres ( the switch from 2/4 to 4/4 had a huge impact ) .

As in all music, current composers and musicians, feel the need to " cut " a niche for themselves .The irony here ? they probably never consider for one second, the impact and ripple effect it will have, in so many different areas.

.
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
The developement of Rumba ( a generic term ) from Danzon to todays watered down versions of Mambo / Salsa and Intern. style Rumba etc. seem to bear no relationship, to their past form .
I did a class on this only 3 days ago. And, Ampster has a cave over here that I have been hiding in for most of the day. No popcorn left, but perhaps you should join us.
 
Just about any dance, if you break it down enough, ends up as forward, back, side and turn.
Yes - good, isn't it? :)

Perhaps AT is unique in being "pre-broken-down"? In other words, it's already deconstructed enough so that it forces you to work on technique at a much earlier point, rather than be distracted by all the pretty patterns?
 

madmaximus

Well-Known Member
[Emerges from monastery deep in the high mountains, glass of Chateau Lafite and chocolates in hand.]



Waitaminutethere. . . popcorn. . .?

POPCORN?

well... darn!...when did that memo come out?


[Heads back to monastery. Strains of Piazzola in the background--in the baritone voices of monastic choir]





m
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
lol, why does a monastery make it even more alluring?...i am twisted...no comments from the peanut gallery...funny...I don't even like chocolate but have been craving it today...Chateau Lafite? mmmmmmm...okay...where are the moderators?...what does this have to do with tango?..er...max...how's your tango?(not AT plz, unless you are a patient and kind man...which I suspect you are)
 

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