anyone ever go to a Frankie social?

#61
Pretty much, we tend to adore the narcissist body, praise it for its beauty, and yet disregard that behind the facade work needs be done. we look for a version of models on the dancefloor, nothing more nothing less. If someone is fat and ugly, but has the heart and personality of charm, then they are no good on the dancefloor; they can't dance and we are looking for folks who can actually look good so we can lose the pounds, get surgery from the masters, and bang, now we are worthy of praise.
Interestingly, boriken, there is a salsera around here who is significantly overweight, but can dance her #$$ off! And not for a 'big gurl' (as some would say, but I find particularly insulting), but a good dancer period. I think although salseros are certainly prone to beautiful body worship, there seems to be much more room for the appreciation of various body types. I once commented on another board about J-Lo having a fabulous dancer's body,and someone mentioned that they didn't think of her as having one. They thought more of ballet dancers as having a 'dancer's body'. I realized in that moment how much salsa and belly dance have affected my views of what a dancer's body is. Sure, there is a tendency for salsa performers to be lean, but many of them are curvy as well. And belly dance-I can't think of a prominent, thin belly dancer (although I'm sure there are a few).
So, I'm with you on the general worship at the altar of the perfect body, but I'd like to think that sometimes we can be a little more open to what is beautiful...
 
#62
Interestingly, boriken, there is a salsera around here who is significantly overweight, but can dance her #$$ off! And not for a 'big gurl' (as some would say, but I find particularly insulting), but a good dancer period. I think although salseros are certainly prone to beautiful body worship, there seems to be much more room for the appreciation of various body types. I once commented on another board about J-Lo having a fabulous dancer's body,and someone mentioned that they didn't think of her as having one. They thought more of ballet dancers as having a 'dancer's body'. I realized in that moment how much salsa and belly dance have affected my views of what a dancer's body is. Sure, there is a tendency for salsa performers to be lean, but many of them are curvy as well. And belly dance-I can't think of a prominent, thin belly dancer (although I'm sure there are a few).
So, I'm with you on the general worship at the altar of the perfect body, but I'd like to think that sometimes we can be a little more open to what is beautiful...
Yes, I have two counts on this issue of the narcissist body. The one you just mentioned, which is amazing how biased and judgmental we are. And the one where a narcissist body stands for the ability to match musical structure to and idolizing state, yet beyond façade nothing is found.

A narcissist dancer only cares about the look of dance, the claims he gains from the fellow superficial dancers. Narcissist in the sense of glorifying the ability of the body, but ignoring emotional connection to music, moves, partner... It is mistaken that because there is impeccable rhythm, and ability to follow sound waves to perfect pitch, point and shoot, we have mastered dancing.

Let’s say Joe Black was an amazing dancer who represented the epitome of musicality. However, he was as empty as a field of potatoes during the great famine in Europe. To the material eye with the depth of sight as Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman, he would be the epitome of musicality and the narcissist body (ability and impromptu locomotion). To others Joe Black would be no more than inert, despite his actions, there is nothing attaching Mr. Black to the life of the music. Two points of views, one cares about a status and façade, the other cares about different characteristics.
 
#63
So, I'm with you on the general worship at the altar of the perfect body, but I'd like to think that sometimes we can be a little more open to what is beautiful...
This is a natural instinct. If you see something and you find it beautiful, then it is. If you find it ugly then it is. This is neither wrong nor superficial. It's selection, and it's very natural. It just happens.

When I see some dancer I like it's not like I'm taking out 10 pages of checklists and I calculate whether I like that dancer or not. It just happens. I might like them as dancers, or as people, or both, but there's nothing wrong with selection.

I will not particularly enjoy dancing with an overweight woman, I have danced in the past when asked, and I do not avoid anyone, but on the attractiveness side it doesn't do anything for me and on the dancing side, I find it hard (er) to lead because I have to compensate for many things and I am not able how to do it very well. I know personally a female dancer who is overweight but lighter than a feather, who both follows and leads, and is a lot of fun to be around. She knows that her weight is not considered normal, but she never complains about how unfair our biological instincts are or how messed up our societal norms have become.

Yes, fit is attractive. Yes, good looking dancers are attractive. Yes, charm is attractive. Yes, character is attractive. Yes, fashionable is attractive. Yes, being cool is attractive. Depending on the context their value is different. So it's naturally logical in a club to like a dancer that looks amazing but isn't so strong on the character issue than a someone who looks like they're having a fit, or are boring as hell but have a kind a pleasant personality. The context is dancing!!! But when it comes to friendship I will definitely appreciate more that person of character than the guy who looks good dancing.

There is also nothing wrong with trying to fit society's (or insert smaller community name here: ie salsa) standards when it comes to value. Otherwise you'll always be that person who ends up alone, not having the people they want around them, and looking down on those who do because they're cool, justifing their lack of social success with some fake notion of being more ethical, more profound, more <insert quality here> than the rest.

In short feel free to appreciate what you genuinely feel you appreciate and never allow yourself to feel bad about it. It's a natural screening process.
 
#64
Let’s say Joe Black was an amazing dancer who represented the epitome of musicality. However, he was as empty as a field of potatoes during the great famine in Europe.
You are artistically "correct" but technically wrong :)). The great famine in Europe happened around the 1300 while the first potato found its way there from Latin America in the late 1500.

But I guess since they were no potatoes in Europe at that time all potato fields had to be empty :confused: .

I joke I joke. Merry Christmas.
 
#65
You are artistically "correct" but technically wrong :)). The great famine in Europe happened around the 1300 while the first potato found its way there from Latin America in the late 1500.

But I guess since they were no potatoes in Europe at that time all potato fields had to be empty :confused: .

I joke I joke. Merry Christmas.
I liked it that joke.

You are correct, shouldn't have pointed out Great; I type and don't think, what a surprise. Europe was devastated by a series of famines. In one of those, potatoes are credited for ridding parts of europe from famine, then, because of the neglect that the chosen type of potatoe did not fair well in a specific type of climate, parts of europe went into a subsequent famine where all potatoe fields where empty... then, new york, new york... if you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere...
 
#66
You are artistically "correct" but technically wrong :)). The great famine in Europe happened around the 1300 while the first potato found its way there from Latin America in the late 1500.

But I guess since they were no potatoes in Europe at that time all potato fields had to be empty :confused: .
I suspect boriken was referencing the Irish potato famine of 1845-1849, also known as the 'Great Famine' or 'Great Hunger'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_potato_famine

But anyway, that's not really the point here.
 

Josh

Active Member
#67
What is that all about? I thought it was more of an overall New York thing than a Frankie thing. Why do ladies want have that tortured soul look in their eyes when they dance? Why do the men have that cataonic lobotomy look?

This is probaly why I love Casino/Rueda so much. Everyone has smile on their face and is genuinely enjoying themselves.
Legato, I generally agree with you... I always encourage students to smile, be happy, and genuinely enjoy the dance!

However, I think it's about the music. Typical casino rueda salsa music is fast, peppy, and has a boogaloo feel to it. Compare that with classic 60's, 70's salsa music (and even some modern), which does not necessarily have that peppy feel to it, but a smooth, cool, uneven clave, "damn this is hot" feel. Your connection with your partner may produce a smile, but the music is not a happy-go-lucky type of music. Ever seen tango (american, international, or argentine) dancers with big cheeses on? The music just doesn't evoke that feeling. When I do a competition (or heck, practice), I don't have the same face for rumba (a smooth, romantic look) as I do for jive/swing/cha cha (big smile, the music yells it!) as I do for tango (much more serious). It's the music, man.

But I will note that there's a difference between looking like the music is moving you, and looking like an arrogant snob. I don't like that look in ANY dance, with ANY music. :)
 

Josh

Active Member
#68
Before you generalize, take a look at this video of Frankie dancing when he doesn't know he is being recorded and with a fantastic partner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKg47WudXBk

Here's Francisco Vazquez dancing to the same song. Not his best dancing, and his partner looks a bit lost, but his turns are amazing and it's got some good and funny moments. I thought it would be interesting to compare two different styles and dancers dancing to the same song. :wink: Not meant to start any debate, and please don't--just wanted to hear this lovely song twice hehe... :wink: (the song is "No Critiques")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tjS2I2MJBM
 
#69
which does not necessarily have that peppy feel to it, but a smooth, cool, uneven clave, "damn this is hot" feel. Your connection with your partner may produce a smile, but the music is not a happy-go-lucky type of music. Ever seen tango (american, international, or argentine) dancers with big cheeses on? The music just doesn't evoke that feeling.
Whoa!!!!! yeah... baby... feel it, feel it... yum yummm.... let's dance Josh
 
#70
Nice vid. I liked watching them. They dance very nicely together. (It really irks me though when women w/long hair don't secure it. I've been slapped in the face one too many times by women dancing next to me w/loose, long hair.)

P.S. I just watched the whole video... hadn't seen it all before. That's pretty wild when she falls back and leans on his leg it seemed, and then he threw his leg over her or something... esp. that they did that in a social dance setting. Seems a bit risky to me. Also, she didn't come across as "lost" at all to me.
 
#71
P.S. I just watched the whole video... hadn't seen it all before. That's pretty wild when she falls back and leans on his leg it seemed, and then he threw his leg over her or something... esp. that they did that in a social dance setting. Seems a bit risky to me.
Yeah, was that a neck drop? It did look a bit risky for a crowded floor. They didn't kill anyone though, so kudos to them for pulling it off.
 
#72
Yeah, I was thinking more risky for HER though. Seems like a pretty vulnerable position to be in, esp. if another lead/couple not paying attention were to back into her at that same moment. I wouldn't even know where to BEGIN falling back like that. Must require alot of core/glutes strength, no?
 

samina

Well-Known Member
#73
yeah, she didn't look lost to me, either. i like the clip -- enjoyed their dancing. you're right about his turns... very nice!
 
#74
To be honest, it seems that compliments beyond the body are prevalent to the mature crowed who understands that while a rabbit can fly through pleasures of the flesh, the heart makes all the difference.






you have dropped some exquisitely inscrutable ****phors in this forum in the two or so years i think i've been here, but this one wins a special award.


rabbits. flying through the pleasures of the flesh. it's.... it's hilarious, i'm sorry :)
 

Beto

Active Member
#75
Yeah, I was thinking more risky for HER though. Seems like a pretty vulnerable position to be in, esp. if another lead/couple not paying attention were to back into her at that same moment. I wouldn't even know where to BEGIN falling back like that. Must require alot of core/glutes strength, no?
Generally speaking, it's the same principle as limbo dancing or trying to limbo. You're keeping your balance in your legs and your abdominal muscles. I'd say you're in control of about 90% of your body's balance during a drop and the guy has to have the other 10% to catch you.
 
#76
you have dropped some exquisitely inscrutable ****phors in this forum in the two or so years i think i've been here, but this one wins a special award.


rabbits. flying through the pleasures of the flesh. it's.... it's hilarious, i'm sorry :)
It was meant to be... :) Lunatics too have their funny moments.
 
#77
Beto. Yeah, that totally makes sense now that you mention it... that the move is very similar to limbo. I'm afraid I'd never have the strength to do that. All the more amazing that they did it so "effortlessly", and in the middle of social dancing! I'd only expect something like that in a performance, and I've only seen it one other time and that was by Liz Lira.
 
#78
rabbits. flying through the pleasures of the flesh. it's.... it's hilarious, i'm sorry :)
Actually rabbits are sort of known for "flying through the pleasures of the flesh." Aintcha never heard of 'screwing like rabbits'? ;)

Eeeeeenyway, and on the original topic of Frankie socials: I just came back from the Empire thing, it was much more lively this time than the last time I went. Good crowd, plenty of people dancing. Not noticeably dominated by mini-Frankies this time either, although of course there were some around. Good music. I recommend.
 
#79
Off topic: Hey everyone.....that girl is Francisco's partner for a few years. Some of those moves are pieces from one of his routines. It is a lot less risky than you think because they have danced together so much...

On topic: Can someone post up a picture of a "Frankie type?"
 
#80
Just got back from Frankie's social and I had a great time. This was my first one. I enjoyed every dance. There were many very skilled dancers. The women were good dancers and very friendly, most I see at other NYC events. I noticed, Frankie's male students seem to have a very smooth and unique style that sets them apart from the usual turn pattern technicians. I would definately check it out again next year because it was a worthwhile experience for me.
 

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