Ask Frankie

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#21
d nice said:
It's not like Frankie can't be seen within in a 2 hour drive of any major scene at least once a year. If someone really wanted to connect with the true roots of lindy hop as done in the Savoy Ballroom from the 30's to 50's let me know. I'll happily let them know when Frankie will be in their neck of the woods.

That said Frankie Manning will be in Palm Springs (for all you Southern Cali types, Joe, Jonathon) in November for the Harvest Moon Swing Out.
Hey d nice! I realize that Orlando is not a "major scene", but I'm willing to drive or fly. Do you know if Frankie Manning has a website or if he publishes a calendar. Or do you publish info on your website?
 

Spitfire

Well-Known Member
#22
Re: Varification!

Black Sheep said:
Swing Kitten'
Do you really expect anyone to accept what D'nice Says Frankie said? Is this what common sense verification is? How about some authentic quotes from Frankie himself? either denying or corroborating Spitfire's statement concerning the 'Six Count Lindy being the original Lindy in the 1940's'.
Until we get Frankie's verification from his own lips, let me give you my personal 'Verification' of what was taught up until the 1960's in New York and in L.A. the two specific cities where I was a live active observing dancer and teacher of Swing with a bear trap memory. Here is my Quote, "Nobody ever used the word, ' eight counts' for Swing/Lindy" and if I have to someday demonstrate why the Six Count was used and why it is so flexible and superior 'count' in training anyone to become a top Lindy dancer, I will do it!
But in the time being I am a 'Primary Source' of what Lindy was being taught her in L.A. in the 1940's and the 1950's and what style of Lindy was being taught and danced in New York in the 1930's up until the 1960's. I was there actively teaching and dancing both WCS & ECS (LINDY) styles that have now evolved into similar but different dance forms, before D'nice was ever born.

Black Sheep, "Talk is Cheap, Verification is Golden" Joe Lanza, 2003 a.d.
Joe, it's not a big deal; d nice is answering the question as he best knows. I may be wondering about the six count thing, but it's nothing that needs going out of the way to find out.
 
#23
Jenn, Frankie will be at the Virgina State Open in October. The event is run by Craig Hutchinson. The event itself is a little weird as far as swing events go... the break down for dances is very ballroom-esque, but since it is so close to DC it generally draws a decent number of pretty amazing dancers. This is as close to Florida that I know he is going to be before the end of the year. I'll ask if there is anything closer out your way in the next six months. I do know he is on vacation the month of December.

If you want to hook up with one of the original Savoy dancers, Sugar Sullivan lives in Boca I think (I can never remember where exactly, it is one of the small towns in Southern Florida). She might be at SoFLEX (South Florida Lindy EXchange).
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#24
Cool! I may look into the South Florida Exchange. That's about a three-hour drive for me, versus about ten to VA. Plus, if I go to VA, I'll probably get waylaid by my Mom, who's in South Carolina. I'd probably never make it to Virginia, with all those homemade biscuits in me! :lol:
 
G

Guest

Guest
#26
Re: Varification!

Black Sheep said:
Until we get Frankie's verification from his own lips..
How about Frankie on video talking about it in his own instructional series?

http://www.swingdanceshop.com/linhopwitfra.html

While you're on the website, click on the videos and you can view a Quicktime movie.

You can buy these for yourself, or go to your library and see if they have them (if they don't you can request them).

-FF
 
#28
Re: Varification!

Black Sheep said:
Swing Kitten'
Do you really expect anyone to accept what D'nice Says Frankie said? Is this what common sense verification is? How about some authentic quotes from Frankie himself?
Please stop treating this issue like it is a religious question. Should d’Nice lie just to annoy the BlackSheep. I don’t think so! Frankie could remember right or wrong. BlackSheep could remember right or wrong. It was long time ago in a big city. They could say 6 and 8 and both be right. Move on, and appreciate the dance as it is today. Have fun. Enjoy. If the Sheeps magic pill can help anyone that great. If somebody prefers another way, that’s great to. Personally I would like the friendly dance instructor back.
 
#30
We will be using the answers that d'nice provides for this thread. If you feel d'nice is not going to give a valid answer, then I would suggest starting a separate thread about your point of view. The main focus of this thread is about Frankie's answers to d'nice's questions. If we are lucky, we may even get a recording which I will happily make available here on the forums.

Danish Guy, well said!
Swing Kitten, your the best!

When it comes to Frankie Manning, I will personally vouch for the fact that he considers the 8-count swing out the core of the Lindy Hop and nearly all the moves he teaches are 8 count including the line dances. Yes, he does do some 6-count, but he always keeps some level of phrasing with the music. 6-count is not a very good method of choreography.

Let's stick to questions you would like to ask Frankie.

Here's one:
Frankie, if we gathered some donations from people, would you give your official answers right here on the Dance Forums? We can hire a typist if you like.
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#31
DanceMentor said:
Danish Guy, well said!
Swing Kitten, your the best!
Hey, what am I, chopped liver? :lol: :lol: Just kidding. Yes. They both said what needed saying, and said it well.


DanceMentor said:
Frankie, if we gathered some donations from people, would you give your official answers right here on the Dance Forums? We can hire a typist if you like.
This is an excellent idea. It would be so nice to get words of wisdom from some living greats, like Frankie Manning and others. It's worth making a donation. This is a rare time in history, and these folks won't be around forever. We need to learn all we can. :)
 
#33
Re: Varification!

Danish Guy said:
Frankie could remember right or wrong. BlackSheep could remember right or wrong. It was long time ago in a big city. They could say 6 and 8 and both be right. Move on, and appreciate the dance as it is today.
Two notes...

While it is technically possible that a dancer from one era could forget what they used to do... Frankie never stopped dancing (minus his stint in the Army in WWII). He danced pretty much every week up in Harlem and in the late 80's began to dance around not just this country but the world. The line of continuity unbroken and so many film clips of his dancing from the Swing Era of the 30's and 40's, make it very unlikely that he could have forgotten something so basic as... the basic. Fact is the count behind his dancing now and the dancing in his clips is the same.

We've already established that Joe, despite his insistance of using a six count method, infact executes the swing out in the eight count format as counted by todays international instructors.

The problem really lies in the fact that Joe didn't learn swing dancing in 30's Harlem, the acknowledged hot bed of the dance. I believe he learned more than a decade later (Joe will correct me if I am wrong, but he has said he didn't start dancing swing until around 27, and by that rakish picture of his, he couldn't possibly have been born in 1913) and on the other coast. The dance had noticeably changed both in its music and its form. So while some people maintained the name Lindy Hop a significant number of dancers had switched to the term Lindy, Jitterbug, or Swing.

As is want with dancers today, many people do not want to acknowledge what they are dong may be a different dance. Despite the number of changes in style, form, music, moves, and character.

Suffice to say that I have little doubt Joe teaches the dance the way he danced it in the 50's. That dance however is not the same as done by Herbert White's performers, the dancers from the Savoy Ballroom, or from Harlem... at least according to those who are still with us or the film footage.
 
#34
Thanks for the support, chopped liver...er...pygmalion :lol: :lol: :lol:
WOuldn't it be awesome if we could get Frankie Manning offer his comments right here on Dance Forums?

d'nice,
I have a high level of confidence the dancers at the Savoy dance an 8-count swing out as the basis of their dance.
 
#35
Well I'm glad of your confidence. The fact Frankie counts it out as eight in his instructional video is pretty telling as far as what he does now... which is pretty much the same (minus adjustments made from a performance style to the social style) as his film clips in the 40's.

Anyone who doubts should check out the movies Frankie has been in and count it out themselves.

You certainly don't need me or Joe telling you what it is, when you have two perfectly good eyes yourself.

"The Proof is in the pudding." - Anonymous
 
#38
Frankie's Verification

Lindy Buffs,
Does not the statement below by Frankie verify what I have been saying for a long, long time that, 'There was no such thing as an 'Eight Count Lindy" in the 1940's & 1950's'?

Quote:
Has what you teaching changed over the years?
FRANKIE, "Well, it has changed because now at least I know how to count up to eight!

Black Sheep, 'Talk is cheep, but Frankie's Verification is GOLDEN'
 
#39
Frankie Iterview

Frankie Fans,
Check out SDSalsaguy's revealing intervierw of Frankie Manning for a Primary Source Report on his thread, FRANKIE MANNMING ...MASTER of the LINDSY HOP' for a realk eye opener!.
Black Sheep, I never knew Bo Peep!
 

SDsalsaguy

Administrator
Staff member
#40
Re: Frankie Iterview

Black Sheep said:
Check out SDSalsaguy's revealing intervierw of Frankie Manning for a Primary Source Report on his thread, FRANKIE MANNMING ...MASTER of the LINDSY HOP' for a realk eye opener!.
Just for the record, I did not do this interview! As posted at the bottom of the article, I was just re-posting, with full permission, form Dance Notes. The interview itself was conducted by Christine Zona, Dance Notes' Editor-in-Chief .
 

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