Ballroom vs Street/club Salsa

IsaacAltman said:
Good point Africana. It is never one easy solution which should tell us that each side must become more tolerant with the other and within their own style of dance.
It's that tolerance and willingness to work with another person that helps us to grow as dancers. It only makes sense that dancing with a good dancer who practices a different style than the one you're familiar with, or even just a variation of the style you dance, would be a good learning experience that can help to enhance and improve your own dancing. All you need to do is be willing to try and make things work between the two of you.
 
Sabor said:
SalsaAmore said:
Sagitta said:
Yes. SA or anyone else. If you have comments on my above post on moderation please pm me. Thanks.
Sagitta, sure, great, I'll PM you when I get a chance and we can PM eachother to discuss, okay?

Latindia, we can PM eachother as well.
ah well, what da heck.. PM me too while you're on a roll :lol:
Sure, sabor, I thought you would never ask. :lol:

SDsalsaguy said:
Medira said:
kdogg said:
Wow...this thread is still alive and kicking. :wink:
*kicks the thread* ...looks like it! :p
:lol: ...and actually back on topic too!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:
Woohoo!
 
if the distinction at issue is *true* street dancing (no formal training whatsoever) versus studio/ballroom/salsa school dancing, i will be the first to admit that i have a very difficult time dancing with street dancers... i just don't have the long background in latin music that they do, or the years of dancing at family picnics, etc.

for example, family of latin friends of mine get a huge kick out of me at their family events. i am inevitably introduced as the "salsera," but when Uncle Pedro dances with me, you can see the look of shock and confusion on his face. i can't follow him. now that i've been dancing a while, i'm better at improvising so at least i don't stand there dumbly anymore.. but still. it's not pretty.

back to the trained dancer world: when i am paired with an unknown but trained leader, i can usually tell where he trained right away. ballroom studio, club only, salsa school, in new york or not, and sometimes where in new york (some of the schools have very distinctive styles.) i can also see how much of the dancer comes from training and how much natural ability they have - this is usually most evident during the shining breaks.

like most people, i can identify the competitive-style ballroom dancers right away as well, and i will always seek any new ones out at a salsa party to help them find their way in a scene that can be very different than what they are used to. new york is full of professional dancers of ALL stripes and lots of them show up randomly in the salsa world - nobody bats an eye unless poor etiquette is displayed.

as someone who decided to straddle the salsa *and* dancesport scenes, i feel like i have a somewhat unique perspective on the differences, similarities and very minor conflicts between the two worlds and their little sub-communities. there's not a lot of actual animosity between them here in new york because:

a. there are enough people doing both, and enough opportunities to do both, that nobody is insecure
b. the worlds don't overlap that much
c. it's competitive enough that folks are always looking for an edge or for the next hot move - regardless of where it comes from
d. new york on-2 salsa dancers so thoroughly believe they are dancing the way god meant people to dance salsa that they don't sweat the poor souls who dance differently (i'm guilty of that myself.)
e. there's a small critical mass of ballroom Rhythm dancers who live, work, and teach here, and their impact on the club scene (and the club scene's impact on them) is really quite interesting. many would identify as dancers who started out with salsa, and a few others are still active in the clubs. these folks are fascinating to watch and (if you're super lucky) dance with.
 
Nice post.

alemana said:
c. it's competitive enough that folks are always looking for an edge or for the next hot move - regardless of where it comes from
Competing for what?
d. new york on-2 salsa dancers so thoroughly believe they are dancing the way god meant people to dance salsa that they don't sweat the poor souls who dance differently (i'm guilty of that myself.)
:lol:
e. there's a small critical mass of ballroom Rhythm dancers who live, work, and teach here, and their impact on the club scene (and the club scene's impact on them) is really quite interesting. many would identify as dancers who started out with salsa, and a few others are still active in the clubs. these folks are fascinating to watch and (if you're super lucky) dance with.
Could you elaborate? How is it interesting?
 
alemana said:
c. it's competitive enough that folks are always looking for an edge or for the next hot move - regardless of where it comes from
word 8)

alemana said:
d. new york on-2 salsa dancers so thoroughly believe they are dancing the way god meant people to dance salsa that they don't sweat the poor souls who dance differently (i'm guilty of that myself.)
:lol: :lol:
 
Sabor said:
SalsaAmore said:
Sagitta said:
Yes. SA or anyone else. If you have comments on my above post on moderation please pm me. Thanks.
Sagitta, sure, great, I'll PM you when I get a chance and we can PM eachother to discuss, okay?

Latindia, we can PM eachother as well.
ah well, what da heck.. PM me too while you're on a roll :lol:
Don't just PM each other. Other DFers could benefit from your discussion, unless you guys have something secretive to talk about.
 
tacad said:
e. there's a small critical mass of ballroom Rhythm dancers who live, work, and teach here, and their impact on the club scene (and the club scene's impact on them) is really quite interesting. many would identify as dancers who started out with salsa, and a few others are still active in the clubs. these folks are fascinating to watch and (if you're super lucky) dance with.
Could you elaborate? How is it interesting?
I was having a nostalgic moment lastnight watching home videos from old salsa congresses that I had recorded. And my favorite part is about 10 minutes of this hungarian ballroom couple who were doing some sort of latin/rhythm/cha cha cha thing with lots of flashy, snappy, attitudish moves. The girl especially with her apple-cherry-red hair was so eye-catching, very bold, making full use of every frame and support her pony-tailed partner offered her, snapping her head in every direction possible lol. Now they looked totally out of place in a ballroom full of club/street mambo dancers, and they were never really dancing on any consistent beat or to the music, in fact they seem to disregard. However they had such a distinctive, precise and beautiful showmanship I just couldn't stop filming them that night. I also noticed they never really danced with anyone else that I saw at that congress

That was over 2 years ago, it still fascinates me to watch that portion of the video.
 
kdogg said:
Sabor said:
SalsaAmore said:
Sagitta said:
Yes. SA or anyone else. If you have comments on my above post on moderation please pm me. Thanks.
Sagitta, sure, great, I'll PM you when I get a chance and we can PM eachother to discuss, okay?

Latindia, we can PM eachother as well.
ah well, what da heck.. PM me too while you're on a roll :lol:
Don't just PM each other. Other DFers could benefit from your discussion, unless you guys have something secretive to talk about.
Kdogg, we're just following admins orders, because we don't want to go off topic nor comment on moderators posts. You could be included in the loop if you want. :wink:

Or, what do you think if we start a PM thread, I would go for that?
 
africana - this weekend remind me to point out to you my favorite leader in new york. you'll see a brilliant fusion of club style with ballroom training.
 
africana said:
alemana said:
c. it's competitive enough that folks are always looking for an edge or for the next hot move - regardless of where it comes from
word 8)
I didn't mean a rhetorical "Why are you competing?", but what thing are you gaining as a prize? Dances? Hot dancers? Prestige?
 
IsaacAltman said:
That couple competes at the WSF event. Here is a pic of them
http://www.worldsalsafederation.com/For Hire.html

You will have to scroll down past Laura and I dancing Cha Cha on a Cuban TV Program
Yes that's them :D
2004 World Mambo Champions, Levente Szonyi and Dora Laki

They were quite a sight. also interesting that people didn't gather around to watch like they do with the salsa "celebrities", no complaints here lol my camera shots were perfect
 
tacad said:
africana said:
alemana said:
c. it's competitive enough that folks are always looking for an edge or for the next hot move - regardless of where it comes from
word 8)
I didn't mean a rhetorical "Why are you competing?", but what thing are you gaining as a prize? Dances? Hot dancers? Prestige?
well competing in the sense of riding a new fresh wave, discovering the next new thing, it's mostly performer-dancers that are aggressive in this way, and then social dancers simply looking for something new to add to their arsenal of impressive moves :p 8)
 
africana said:
IsaacAltman said:
That couple competes at the WSF event. Here is a pic of them
http://www.worldsalsafederation.com/For Hire.html

You will have to scroll down past Laura and I dancing Cha Cha on a Cuban TV Program
Yes that's them :D
2004 World Mambo Champions, Levente Szonyi and Dora Laki

They were quite a sight. also interesting that people didn't gather around to watch like they do with the salsa "celebrities", no complaints here lol my camera shots were perfect
No offense meant here, but in the vido clip I saw on the site, it looked like a ballroom dance to me. I'm probably just being unobservant, but it looked like Salsa danced with ballroom technique? It looked great. I like the backward shimmy thing..... Is that is what is winning competitions? Because if so, it looks very unlike what I've seen danced on teh street level.... Color me comfused.

I liked what I saw and I wouldn't be ashamed to call that ballroom Salsa in the least.... It was slick....
 
what are we competing for? definitely admiration, respect, acknowledgement.

with those come lots of second-tier benefits - better partner choices, more attention from ambitious teachers, opportunities to dance, teach and perform.

for me, nods of encouragement and a "wepa!" from an onlooker at Jimmy's on any given Sunday mean way, way more than the other kinds of validation i could and do get.

plenty of people in my scene never compete, but they are intensely competitive and driven. they are in class every day and social dancing most nights of the week.
 
DancingMommy said:
africana said:
IsaacAltman said:
That couple competes at the WSF event. Here is a pic of them
http://www.worldsalsafederation.com/For Hire.html

You will have to scroll down past Laura and I dancing Cha Cha on a Cuban TV Program
Yes that's them :D
2004 World Mambo Champions, Levente Szonyi and Dora Laki

They were quite a sight. also interesting that people didn't gather around to watch like they do with the salsa "celebrities", no complaints here lol my camera shots were perfect
No offense meant here, but in the vido clip I saw on the site, it looked like a ballroom dance to me. I'm probably just being unobservant, but it looked like Salsa danced with ballroom technique? It looked great. I like the backward shimmy thing..... Is that is what is winning competitions? Because if so, it looks very unlike what I've seen danced on teh street level.... Color me comfused.

I liked what I saw and I wouldn't be ashamed to call that ballroom Salsa in the least.... It was slick....
No no, you're confused :lol: the video I was talking about were videos that I took 2 years ago at a congress, not an online video. I watched them last night at home

But yeah they were dancing something not quite salsa, but it was very cool and maybe because it was different to me at the time I saw them 8)
 
alemana said:
what are we competing for? definitely admiration, respect, acknowledgement.

with those come lots of second-tier benefits - better partner choices, more attention from ambitious teachers, opportunities to dance, teach and perform.

for me, nods of encouragement and a "wepa!" from an onlooker at Jimmy's on any given Sunday mean way, way more than the other kinds of validation i could and do get.

plenty of people in my scene never compete, but they are intensely competitive and driven. they are in class every day and social dancing most nights of the week.
wow that's intense!

color me lazy :p
 
africana said:
alemana said:
what are we competing for? definitely admiration, respect, acknowledgement.

with those come lots of second-tier benefits - better partner choices, more attention from ambitious teachers, opportunities to dance, teach and perform.

for me, nods of encouragement and a "wepa!" from an onlooker at Jimmy's on any given Sunday mean way, way more than the other kinds of validation i could and do get.

plenty of people in my scene never compete, but they are intensely competitive and driven. they are in class every day and social dancing most nights of the week.
wow that's intense!

color me lazy :p
Yeah, wow! :notworth:
 
"Mommy" The clip is my wife and I dancing Cha Cha not Salsa. Scroll down and you will see the pic Africana was referring to. Just a bit of confusion. By the way, thanks for the compliment. I am 53 years old in that clip.hahahahahhahahaha
 

Dance Ads