Butt wiggling and flashy footwork are not tango

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#21
... they think learning steps and embellishments is tango.
Learning is a prerequisite to dancing, and of course in the broadest sense there is nothing else in tango besides 'steps' and 'embellishments' (the latter being optional, the former, of the essence).

Everyone has to learn the fundamentals of tango, one way or another. After a while, you come to realise that at least 80% of what social dancers do when they dance is to combine and recombine the fundamental elements of the dance: its distinctive actions and vocabulary, in a variety of ways. For some, that way is formulaic, rather like a tourist in a foreign land using a phrase book, and for others, the language of the dance is fully assimilated and then spoken fluently. Most people start with a certain amount of structure and move towards a more improvisatory way of dancing, later. This is normal, and for many, it is a necessary path to progress. Others catch on to the idea of freedom, underpinned by the grammar of the dance, more quickly, and for them learning moves and figures is distracting and ultimately unhelpful. We are all different, and have different learning needs and styles.

Only a few will ever become regular social dancers, and a smaller number still, will ever be any good at it. Tango is many different things and has many different faces. The only exception is if you want to dance in a particular place with a particular group of people. There you must conform - it applies to very few of us.
 

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#22
I sort ofmfeelmthat making this particular stylistic dance frozen in a rigid moment defeats not only the serious dancer, making it impossible to add new elements or at least elements that are felt, but makes the casual dancer feel that unless they had some intense relationship to this art form they might as well pack it in.
BRAVOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO super like!! could not have said this better my self
 

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#23
Tango is starting to become salsa.
GOOD!!! regional variety is good variation of movement is good other people from other cultures adding influence is good

nuevo tango only occured out of a desire to vary the otherwise established ( insert rigid, stodgy, elitist ,purist authentic, any word you want here ) view

in the purist sense only a native born argentine person should dance argentine tango all the rest are bastardizing it.. i dont agree with elitist views in any dance form.. even ballet:eek: ( which is wayyyyyyyyyy more elitist than AT i might add)
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#25
GOOD!!! regional variety is good variation of movement is good other people from other cultures adding influence is good

nuevo tango only occured out of a desire to vary the otherwise established ( insert rigid, stodgy, elitist ,purist authentic, any word you want here ) view

in the purist sense only a native born argentine person should dance argentine tango all the rest are bastardizing it.. i dont agree with elitist views in any dance form.. even ballet:eek: ( which is wayyyyyyyyyy more elitist than AT i might add)
But even in a ballet there particural schools.
I was told that there was Russian and French school. I am not into ballet at all.

Eventually every person has it's tango style.
And that style depends on the person dancing with and the night how he feels.

Dancers are humans, not robots. ;)
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#26
So what's the problem? There are many other dances, and tango is not for everyone. If you don't love the music first, the dance will be just another dance. Some never get what tango is about. And that includes Argentines.
Your OP said, "Would people want to learn tango after viewing this video?" Which is it...are you concerned about driving people away or pulling them in? How elitist can you get? I'm sure it's very lovely for you that BsAs has such a huge Tango community that you actually don't care if new people come in. In many communities, that is not the case. We need to continue to bring in new dancers all the time in order to maintain the health of the community. Perhaps you're just jaded because you're tired of your milongas being over-ridden by tourists. I don't know, but your attitude is much more of a turn-off than any exhibition I've ever seen.

As for your remark about music, I've known several people who were drawn to Tango because of the dance but actually didn't care for the music. Some of them liked nuevo but not traditional. Over time, they grew to love the traditional music and are now wonderful, wonderful dancers. Our community would have missed out on those people if they were told they don't belong because they didn't care for the music.
 

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#28
I'm sure it's very lovely for you that BsAs has such a huge Tango community that you actually don't care if new people come in.
this attitude make me see red:mad:
"if you havent been to BsAs"... blah blah blah been there.. took lessons ...liked it alot wont get hung up on the elitist part tho

just want to dance it.. and i dance EVERY style of partner dancing ( well except lindy:oops:)

milonngas were cool in BA so when in rome.. but just as happy to dance AT here in the US with out all the "traditions"
 

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#30
If tango is a true social dance, then telling people there is only a right way to dance it seems a little disingenuous...
we need a thumbs up imoge!!

agree also...your experience in the salsa club mimicked my own awhile back in LA at that "restaurant" i was telling you about... as a white guy.. STRIKE ONE!!.. but i dance at least 4 styles of salsa.. so i mixed and matched and guess what.. all the ladies were happy.. the definition of social leader success!!
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#31
Some people take a dance class to exercise and lose weight. Others take it to find a BF/GF. Others as a social opportunity. Most won't become social dancers nor are they interested in dancing socially. They just like taking classes.

The people whom I took classes with aren't good dancers in any respect but they're still taking classes because they think learning steps and embellishments is tango. When they do dance socially, some of them have difficulty getting dances because they are older and aren't very attractive. In these instances, they would need really good dancing skills but don't have them because of the way they were, and currently are still, taught.

I've told them on a couple of occasions this, but even though they listen, they don't hear what I'm saying. They still think tango is about embellishments and steps and the more of it they know, the better dancers they will become.

This is the problem with these kinds of teachers and these kinds of videos.
And why is that bothering you so much?
Were you asked or did you preach?

People see what they are able to see.
I just say what I see and try to broaden others perspective.
And only after being asked. :)

People are driven by various things, and as long as they enjoy and don't hurt others I am fine with that.
And even those who dance for years have their own personal dances. ;)
 

Bailamosdance

Well-Known Member
#33
John Lennon, when asked what he listened to on the radio, said famously that he never did. He was an artist - did Picasso go to the local museum to check on what the other artists were doing? Dance is the same way. The innovator or the visionary is often pilloried becuase she dares to see outside of the ever tightening box that ensnaers the slaves to tradition.

Now, fyi, what I dance is a competitve style and we are judged mercilessly not only with othrs on the floor but also against a standard and vision that a juge see as what the 'best' is in what I do. But it is no social, and our true expression pops out of this box irregardless - we can't help it. It is great to lose yourself in the minutiae of your passion but please realize that the casual observer or the interested beginner is looking for quite a different experience.
 

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#35
It is great to lose yourself in the minutiae of your passion but please realize that the casual observer or the interested beginner is looking for quite a different experience.
agree as you know i compete as well but across many styles over the years i also love social dancing and wear a completely different mental "hat" when i do that
 

LKSO

Active Member
#36
And why is that bothering you so much?
Were you asked or did you preach?

People see what they are able to see.
I just say what I see and try to broaden others perspective.
And only after being asked. :)
It just came up during conversations after they mentioned that their husbands don't dance tango because they complain that the women in classes (hint: their wives) back-lead so they aren't really leading at all. Their own husbands won't dance with them and they expect to get dances at a milonga?! Some of them have told me explicitly that they can't get dances because they aren't good enough because they don't know many embellishments. They think knowing embellishments makes them a better dancer. They asked the teacher to include embellishments in his classes and he complied.

So they keep going back to his classes. He gives them what they ask for. Then they go to milongas and can't get dances. And they think it's because they need more practice with embellishments. So they go back to classes asking for more. It's a pretty sad cycle... (BUT THE PERFECT BUSINESS MODEL!!!)

I simply pointed this out to them. Their reply? They aren't very good because "it's hard to practice because we need dance partners to practice our embellishments."
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#37
It just came up during conversations after they mentioned that their husbands don't dance tango because they complain that the women in classes (hint: their wives) back-lead so they aren't really leading at all. Their own husbands won't dance with them and they expect to get dances at a milonga?! Some of them have told me explicitly that they can't get dances because they aren't good enough because they don't know many embellishments. They think knowing embellishments makes them a better dancer. They asked the teacher to include embellishments in his classes and he complied.

So they keep going back to his classes. He gives them what they ask for. Then they go to milongas and can't get dances. And they think it's because they need more practice with embellishments. So they go back to classes asking for more. It's a pretty sad cycle... (BUT THE PERFECT BUSINESS MODEL!!!)

I simply pointed this out to them. Their reply? They aren't very good because "it's hard to practice because we need dance partners to practice our embellishments."
Sigh. Said teacher needs to spend some time talking about what makes a good dance partner and how to become more popular.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#38
As for music being the most important thing to train for tango, I'd say that is wide of the mark too. Connection is what counts: both to your partner(s) and to the music. You can't dance tango without both in more-or-less equal measure.

The first Argentine teacher I had a class with said there are three connections in tango; the music, your partner and the floor. I still think that sums it up.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#39
It just came up during conversations after they mentioned that their husbands don't dance tango because they complain that the women in classes (hint: their wives) back-lead so they aren't really leading at all. Their own husbands won't dance with them and they expect to get dances at a milonga?! Some of them have told me explicitly that they can't get dances because they aren't good enough because they don't know many embellishments. They think knowing embellishments makes them a better dancer. They asked the teacher to include embellishments in his classes and he complied.

So they keep going back to his classes. He gives them what they ask for. Then they go to milongas and can't get dances. And they think it's because they need more practice with embellishments. So they go back to classes asking for more. It's a pretty sad cycle... (BUT THE PERFECT BUSINESS MODEL!!!)

I simply pointed this out to them. Their reply? They aren't very good because "it's hard to practice because we need dance partners to practice our embellishments.""
Smart move by the husbands. Let's somebody else deals with their women. :D

As long as they don't listen there is no point of talking to them. :cool:
And the teacher needs to get a spine and communications skills.
 

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