Butt wiggling and flashy footwork are not tango

Bailamosdance

Well-Known Member
#41
Actually, he is giving them what they want. It is quite common in the dance world for the students to believe that they, and not the teacher, have the answers and the direction they should learn.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#42
Actually, he is giving them what they want. It is quite common in the dance world for the students to believe that they, and not the teacher, have the answers and the direction they should learn.
True, but it's also the job of the professional to educate said student and find a compromise. These ladies only think they are getting what they want, but the end result is still the same: they're not getting asked to dance. So the teacher needs to help them understand why and give them what they need. I've been there many times. In BR rather than AT, but the same dynamics happen everywhere. They come to me saying they're ready for an open reverse turn. I say fine, but you need this skill and this skill in order to accomplish an open reverse turn. They spend the whole lesson on said skills and maybe don't even get to the open reverse turn, but they know why and they know they'll get there, so they're happy. Or, the say they need styling. I explain styling comes from good technique, show them why, they buy it, I teach them what I planned to teach in the first place, they leave happy.
 

LKSO

Active Member
#45
Smart move by the husbands. Let's somebody else deals with their women. :D

As long as they don't listen there is no point of talking to them. :cool:
And the teacher needs to get a spine and communications skills.
I was very surprised that their own husbands won't dance (with them). I would think, if I were married, I would love to dance with my wife. But I digress...

I took from the same teacher for a year and a half. His background is professional ballet and took classes in BA with some big names including some milongueros and Naveira et al. He was quite a good tango performer (great technique, balance, form, artistry), better than all performers today, and did have some social dance experience in BA during the 90s. But he's not a social dancer. He simply goes through step sequences one after the other and totally misses the music except for the beat. He doesn't dance socially and I don't think he's done so for many, many years.

He never mentioned 'cabaceo' in any of his classes even though he danced in BA. He's never mentioned anything about etiquette except breath mints. He's never mentioned that the steps he teaches isn't appropriate for the dance floor (because he doesn't know that it isn't appropriate). For him, tango is "park and perform".

With this information, you can understand why he can't teach social dance.
 

LKSO

Active Member
#46
I should also add that, since he's a dance teacher and runs a studio, he's very aware of the economics of losing students and he gets noticeably upset that he loses so many in the first couple of weeks. He knows that students coming back is how he earns his money so he tailors classes to the repeat buyers.
 

jantango

Active Member
#47
As a gross simplification, I could teach you the basics of tango in about two minutes flat: it's a very simple dance.

Connection is what counts: both to your partner(s) and to the music. You can't dance tango without both in more-or-less equal measure.
In two minutes? Is that with or without music? Most tangos are longer than two minutes, no?

How do you connect without knowing the music? Feeling is the essence of tango, not the steps.

As I said, some never get what tango is about.
 

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#49
Why do delete message poster when quoting?
i have never done it any other way.. and you know who you are;)

i see you dont know ballet because in the french system the chasse is up up down in level the russian is opposite or is it the other way around ill ask the mrs LOL

the ballerinas and danseurs in the crowd would have got the joke sorry
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#50
I was very surprised that their own husbands won't dance (with them). I would think, if I were married, I would love to dance with my wife. But I digress...
I would have been surprised at the beginning, but not later

I took from the same teacher for a year and a half. His background is professional ballet and took classes in BA with some big names including some milongueros and Naveira et al. He was quite a good tango performer (great technique, balance, form, artistry), better than all performers today, and did have some social dance experience in BA during the 90s. But he's not a social dancer. He simply goes through step sequences one after the other and totally misses the music except for the beat. He doesn't dance socially and I don't think he's done so for many, many years.

He never mentioned 'cabaceo' in any of his classes even though he danced in BA. He's never mentioned anything about etiquette except breath mints. He's never mentioned that the steps he teaches isn't appropriate for the dance floor (because he doesn't know that it isn't appropriate). For him, tango is "park and perform".

With this information, you can understand why he can't teach social dance.
He will evolve or die.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#51
I should also add that, since he's a dance teacher and runs a studio, he's very aware of the economics of losing students and he gets noticeably upset that he loses so many in the first couple of weeks. He knows that students coming back is how he earns his money so he tailors classes to the repeat buyers.

He will be able to keep that kind of practice until the community grow enough so they are not dependable on him.
In future he will have students, but eventually without learning proper social dancing he will either start teaching properly or get busted.

When all his students are rejected at milonga there might be a shift in their thinking.
And even then he might have his own tango world.
As long as he brings people to AT he holds good practice. ;)

When the student is ready the teacher will come. :D
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#52
i have never done it any other way.. and you know who you are;)

i see you dont know ballet because in the french system the chasse is up up down in level the russian is opposite or is it the other way around ill ask the mrs LOL

the ballerinas and danseurs in the crowd would have got the joke sorry
I don't get notification that my post has been quoted.
I've done various sports and I know that in every sport there are various techniques so I am not surprised that applies to ballet.
It's really great to be the person who understand his own jokes.
 

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#53
In two minutes? Is that with or without music? Most tangos are longer than two minutes, no?

...

As I said, some never get what tango is about.
Oh, don't worry about me: I've got a very clear view of what tango is not, and that is equally valuable.

Out of two minutes: 90 seconds on the basics of physical movement and connection with a partner, without music. The last 30 seconds will be with music and a partner, to illustrate the application of the principles in the context of the dance.

For me the cornerstones of dancing are technique and musicality. You need both, and it takes time and effort to acquire either. Whether a teacher can help you on the journey is moot. Very few teachers have any gift for teaching, sadly, and most students are rubbish at learning. Such is life.
 

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#56
The first Argentine teacher I had a class with said there are three connections in tango; the music, your partner and the floor. I still think that sums it up.
It's difficult not to be connected to to the floor. What did you understand the teacher to mean?

I have a third member of my own connection family, along with a partner and the music, and that is everyone else who is dancing, because if we don't have such a connection our dancing is anything but social. But I suspect that the teacher was referring to the floor in a more direct way, and touching on some aspect of fundamental technique?
 
#57
Feeling is the essence of tango, not the steps.
These discussions remind me of the proverbial blind men arguing about the nature of elephants.
'Clearly, elephants are like snakes', describing the trunk.
'No, they're like tree trunks!', describing the legs.
'You're both wrong! They are like ropes!, describing the tail.
etc. etc. etc.

Sure, tango is a feeling, as the pithy saying goes. But without good technique and a knowledge of the vocabulary of steps, no one is going to be able to lead or follow their feelings.

As I said, some never get what tango is about.
Are you sure it's just one thing? It's pretty complex...
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#58
It's difficult not to be connected to to the floor. What did you understand the teacher to mean?

I have a third member of my own connection family, along with a partner and the music, and that is everyone else who is dancing, because if we don't have such a connection our dancing is anything but social. But I suspect that the teacher was referring to the floor in a more direct way, and touching on some aspect of fundamental technique?
You also need to be connected within yourself. If the leader is leading with his arms and his frame is not connected to the rest of the body, even when he's disassociating the top from the bottom, the lead will not go well. If the lady is not connected to her frame, she won't respond properly.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#59
It's difficult not to be connected to to the floor. What did you understand the teacher to mean?
I understood it to mean; keeping one's feet close to the floor; having good balance and creating movement from the standing leg; and I guess, knowing where one's centre of gravity is.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#60
I've heard it in the context of being connected to (the music, your partner, and) to everyone dancing on the floor at the time. Meaning, be mindful of others around you and the general atmosphere.
 

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