Cha-cha = Crossbody?

Josh

Active Member
#21
My apologies for the mis-assignment of his cha cha, then.
None necessary tj, you never said it was ballroom-ish or anything, just that it was "over the top," (which I agree with). My point was that in the video the dancing looked a little weak (though I know it was an instructional video, not a performance) because it looked like he was sort of halfheartedly throwing his arms out there, and his posture was pretty weak--but if he had done it with good posture and confidence and energy, you might have walked away with a different feeling! :)
 

tj

New Member
#22
None necessary tj, you never said it was ballroom-ish or anything, just that it was "over the top," (which I agree with). My point was that in the video the dancing looked a little weak (though I know it was an instructional video, not a performance) because it looked like he was sort of halfheartedly throwing his arms out there, and his posture was pretty weak--but if he had done it with good posture and confidence and energy, you might have walked away with a different feeling! :)
Ok, thanks for the clarification, Josh!

On a side note, it's interesting to see how his styling has changed over the years. Watching his clips, it's not the same as when I took those workshops (back in like ?2000-2001?)
 
#23
I like solomon riveras stuff i bought a few salsa videos and the cha cha one(advanced)his advanced cha cha looks more ballroom to me mixed with a little street, but he clearly has some ballroom training or watched some ballroom & mimic"s some of the moves. I think cha cha basic is so easy to learn & so much fun,and i"ve also seen the same thing here in philly people( more so latinos) doing salsa to a cha cha beat, as a matter of fact they hardly play cha cha"s at salsa dances seems the purists dont like cha cha"s,but interesting enough some of the teachers/who were once students a few years back, who do not like cha cha, now, i"ve read& saw where there teaching cha cha sometimes(of course its for money since they clearly never really like to do cha cha) go figure, FYI dance communitys are a certain circle and since I dj and dance in the circles thats why i know. cha cha rocks you can even cha cha to jimmy buffet lol.
 

kayak

Active Member
#24
If you start moving to the music with three steps(leader walks forward) and count "one, two, three" then put in the "cha cha cha" or leader's right-left-right and start the "one, two, cha cha cha, one, two cha cha cha" that should put you on the same timing the ballroom/dancesport folks use for their cha cha cha. Apparently stepping off this way uses the music in a similar way that the On2 crowd uses their music, hence the connection and the apparent affinity.
I might not be understanding you suggestion? I think most people learn Cha-Cha as 2,3,4&1 don't they?
 

Josh

Active Member
#26
I might not be understanding you suggestion? I think most people learn Cha-Cha as 2,3,4&1 don't they?
I didn't understand it either, but yes, most people hopefully learn this timing.

I learned it as 1-2-3-cha-cha 5-6-7-cha-cha, where the 1-2-3 and 5-6-7 are exactly the same as NY On2.
Good--that's how most people dance it and how it works with the music the best, IMO.

It should also be noted that instead of forward and back, cha-cha can be danced side-to-side, with the 'cha-cha-cha' (4&1) a side-together-side step (called a "chasse", which is a generic term), with the rock steps being the same.
 
#27
The explanation works if you forget about our 1 - to - 8 measure and look at the steps
Code:
1, 2, 3, cha-cha-cha, 1, 2, cha-cha-cha, 1, 2, cha-cha-cha, 1, 2  <- what SalsaTO said
1, 2, 3, cha-cha  5,  6, 7, cha-cha  1,  2, 3, cha-cha  5,  6, 7, <- the language we mostly speak here
Of course all these "1,2" apart from the first one are what we conventionally call "6,7" or "2,3" but it works.
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#28
The explanation works if you forget about our 1 - to - 8 measure and look at the steps
Code:
1, 2, 3, cha-cha-cha, 1, 2, cha-cha-cha, 1, 2, cha-cha-cha, 1, 2  <- what SalsaTO said
1, 2, 3, cha-cha  5,  6, 7, cha-cha  1,  2, 3, cha-cha  5,  6, 7, <- the language we mostly speak here
Of course all these "1,2" apart from the first one are what we conventionally call "6,7" or "2,3" but it works.


Steve -- what has to be noted here is the WAY in which it is counted with break on "2".

Amer.style has a 1,2,3,-- 4and1 notation.

The Intern.( Eng. ) style-- 1,2,3,4 and 1

this gives a very different musical interpretation when danced with these accents .( also -- a completely different style in appearance )

What I find kinda odd, is that Cha (a B/room dance ) is being discussed on a salsa site.
Merengue, Cumbia, Bolero,Rumba, Guaracha et al, and of course Guajira would seem more in keeping .
 

Josh

Active Member
#29
Amer.style has a 1,2,3,-- 4and1 notation.

The Intern.( Eng. ) style-- 1,2,3,4 and 1
I can't tell by what you wrote the difference ... I guess you mean which beat is emphasized, but I've never noticed anything like that before.

also -- a completely different style in appearance )
Less and less these days my friend... maybe some differences, but to say "completely different style" is stretching it... the technique for both is virtually identical, and hence the appearance is only nominally different.
 

Josh

Active Member
#30
The explanation works if you forget about our 1 - to - 8 measure and look at the steps

Of course all these "1,2" apart from the first one are what we conventionally call "6,7" or "2,3" but it works.
Maybe it works, but wouldn't it be easier to just learn it correctly and without confusion? :) Either way, whatever works for each person, to each his own--just as long as that person doesn't try to teach something as key and well-defined as timing that way to anyone else :)
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#31
I can't tell by what you wrote the difference ... I guess you mean which beat is emphasized, but I've never noticed anything like that before.



Less and less these days my friend... maybe some differences, but to say "completely different style" is stretching it... the technique for both is virtually identical, and hence the appearance is only nominally different.
I would disagree with that entirely-- I NEVER teach my social students ( here and or states ) with the same leg action and or style and neither do most of the chains in which I coached ( 2 different styles )

Techn. is such a catch all phrase.
When I examined in Amer.style, I would not expect to see someone lead a fan position for e,g, nor dance a back spot like a Natural top .

The Intern. rhythmically speaking, has a completely different emphasis on the bar construction . ( ask Eddie he will show you )
 
#32
Maybe it works, but wouldn't it be easier to just learn it correctly and without confusion? :) Either way, whatever works for each person, to each his own--just as long as that person doesn't try to teach something as key and well-defined as timing that way to anyone else :)
Heh. we have a Cuban teacher (from Cuba) in my town right now, who is never off beat, but is also rarely counting like we would. So his cha cha cha goes "one two cha cha cha one two cha cha cha" where he says "one" on beat 2. His salsa goes "one two three ... one two three ..." on the conventional pattern but cycling every four beats. I love his classes, and am learning some cool stuff that tends to upset my strict slottie partners!
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#33
Heh. we have a Cuban teacher (from Cuba) in my town right now, who is never off beat, but is also rarely counting like we would. So his cha cha cha goes "one two cha cha cha one two cha cha cha" where he says "one" on beat 2. His salsa goes "one two three ... one two three ..." on the conventional pattern but cycling every four beats. I love his classes, and am learning some cool stuff that tends to upset my strict slottie partners!

Whats bizarre about that is this -- hes counting in Gaujira timing and dancing on Danzon time (2 ).

Remember -- just because hes from Cuba-- that doesnt make him an expert .
I know many cubans who break on one . I also many who know from nothing !
 

Josh

Active Member
#34
I would disagree with that entirely-- I NEVER teach my social students ( here and or states ) with the same leg action and or style and neither do most of the chains in which I coached ( 2 different styles )

Techn. is such a catch all phrase.
When I examined in Amer.style, I would not expect to see someone lead a fan position for e,g, nor dance a back spot like a Natural top .

The Intern. rhythmically speaking, has a completely different emphasis on the bar construction . ( ask Eddie he will show you )
I would not expect to see a fan position in american either, but I'm not talking about positions or figures, I'm talking about the overall look. Actually Eddie trained me in rhythm and latin, which he also teaches as exactly the same, but I will ask anyway. :)
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#35
I would not expect to see a fan position in american either, but I'm not talking about positions or figures, I'm talking about the overall look.


Actually Eddie trained me in rhythm and latin, which he also teaches as exactly the same, but I will ask anyway. :)

I sure dont want my "overall" look in club cha. ( or any other dance ) to look ANYTHING like my Intern. style .Plus- i dont dance Cha in clubs - I dance Guajira so the point is moot.
Thinking back on Eddie, he probably abandoned the more down to earth style, since he became heavily involved in the comp. world .

I still would find it hard to believe that he was teaching a " straight leg, foot turned out action " in amer.style social-- but there again-- when was the last time he did that ! ?
 

kayak

Active Member
#36
So does anyone else besides Tangotime know Guajira over there? With a thread theme about salsa specialists not doing proper social chacha, I can not even imagine walking up to a lady and asking her to do what Tangotime seems to describe as the pre-1960 root of chacha and finding anyone that wouldn't think I was nuts?
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#37
So does anyone else besides Tangotime know Guajira over there? With a thread theme about salsa specialists not doing proper social chacha, I can not even imagine walking up to a lady and asking her to do what Tangotime seems to describe as the pre-1960 root of chacha and finding anyone that wouldn't think I was nuts?



Besides me ???-- many salseros in " latino " clubs in Tampa, Orlando, Miami and Atlanta etc etc .( pick a large metro city )
And, you just dont walk up to " anyone " ( in any dance for me ), you get to know who the proficient ones are, with time .

As to "proper " social-- even in Cuba many break on " 2 ", which with many, if not most of todays songs, are written.

This is as much about the style of the dance and its content, more than its prefered " break" point .
 

kayak

Active Member
#38
Cool, I live in the US Southwest with a huge Latino population and nobody seems to have ever heard of it. So your descriptions of pre-ChaCha roots is all I know about that dance.

Tons of people ChaCha in our Latin clubs, country western clubs and ballroom. The main difference I see is the CW and ballroom dancers all use the sideways patterns much more than the Latin club dancers. I do think the original question in the thread is true. Around here that Latin club ChaCha is almost just salsa with a triple in the middle.
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#39
Cool, I live in the US Southwest with a huge Latino population and nobody seems to have ever heard of it. So your descriptions of pre-ChaCha roots is all I know about that dance.



Around here that Latin club ChaCha is almost just salsa with a triple in the middle.
If they are breaking on 1, and the triple is stationary --- that is Guajira ( fwd and back basic ) It emanates from "Son" Guajira rhythm.
 

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