Close embrace

#1
Why do most men hardly try to dance in close embrace position? It is so difficult to correctly and elegantly dance that style that even advanced dancers look bad when they try to. I've never seen a good dance in close embrace position except on some very rare videos on YouTube.

I usually enjoy looking at partners dancing an elegant tango but when I see all those couples having a hard time with very basic backward ochos, it hurts my eyes. The women seem like they've never learnt how to make ochos and just cross their legs instead; easier, but terrible bad move. The men seem like they're dancing the afro-style tango (kizomba) which throws centuries of civilization and elegance away.

Close embrace tango is too far difficult so please, don't overdo yourselves. I know you are pleased to hug each other while dancing but keep in mind that there are others who are watching you and it would be appreciated not to obtrude your unsightliness. If you can't, don't try, that should be the spirit in all milongas.

Don't misunderstand, beginners have their place in the ballroom. They may look elegant with basic steps. In fact, I'd rather see beginners doing easy steps in open embrace than experts trying to do difficult steps in close embrace.
 

AndaBien

Well-Known Member
#3
Some people in this forum recognize two types of CE, and they are quite different, IMO. Would you want to clarify?
Also, you've complained about a general problem that only exists so far in your opinion. If you have a specific problem, maybe you'll find some help here.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#4
Fools rush in
where wise men fear to thread....

Shaka, welcome to DF.

Have have you been to Portland, Oregon to watch people dance Argentine Tango?

Have you gone to the milongas in Buenos Aires?
 
#5
I have always said that dancing is much less offensive endeavor than singing. If you don't like the way it looks you can just turn your head the other way or close your eyes. Easy. With singing, it takes much more effort to ignore. You have to plug your ears, and at times even that does not work. :p
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#6
I have always said that dancing is much less offensive endeavor than singing. If you don't like the way it looks you can just turn your head the other way or close your eyes. Easy. With singing, it takes much more effort to ignore. You have to plug your ears, and at times even that does not work. :p
Not to mention, it's bloody well difficult to do when you're also trying to use your arms (you know, with your hands attached) in the actual dancing. I find it much more useful just to sing louder than the offending singer, so as to drown them out!
 
#8
Not to mention, it's bloody well difficult to do when you're also trying to use your arms (you know, with your hands attached) in the actual dancing. I find it much more useful just to sing louder than the offending singer, so as to drown them out!
Hahaha.
I guess that is why musical comedy might be a lot of fun.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#9
Argh. Suddenly thinking of a particular scene from The Right Stuff. Argh...gosh darnit!...out of my head!!! (Where is my rusty brain spoon when I need it?)
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#10
Why do most men hardly try to dance in close embrace position? It is so difficult to correctly and elegantly dance that style that even advanced dancers look bad when they try to. I've never seen a good dance in close embrace position except on some very rare videos on YouTube.

I usually enjoy looking at partners dancing an elegant tango but when I see all those couples having a hard time with very basic backward ochos, it hurts my eyes. The women seem like they've never learnt how to make ochos and just cross their legs instead; easier, but terrible bad move. The men seem like they're dancing the afro-style tango (kizomba) which throws centuries of civilization and elegance away.

Close embrace tango is too far difficult so please, don't overdo yourselves. I know you are pleased to hug each other while dancing but keep in mind that there are others who are watching you and it would be appreciated not to obtrude your unsightliness. If you can't, don't try, that should be the spirit in all milongas.

Don't misunderstand, beginners have their place in the ballroom. They may look elegant with basic steps. In fact, I'd rather see beginners doing easy steps in open embrace than experts trying to do difficult steps in close embrace.
Welcome! This is beautiful start of a discussion of CE tango, and i apprecitate the constructive and open tone in which you started it.

1) could you suggest Youtube videos that are examples of correct and elegant CE?
2) what technique do you advocate for followers for CE ochos?
3) In reference to the centuries of elegance and civilization - what examples of elegant and civilized tango that are more than 100 years old do you refer to?
4) Do you feel that the value of dance is to be measured by how "sightly" it is for the people watching? I.e. "Este esta bailando para las mesas." as a compliment?

Gssh
 
#11
Thank you Steve :)

I appreciate long and passionate debates which can change my mind (or change the mind of others...).

I've never been to the US or Argentine but from what I've seen so far, argentine tango is the same everywhere, except for numbers.

What I meant by close embrace is actually, very close embrace, chest to chest contact, balance of both partners partially transferred to that point of contact (similar to volcadas but not to this extent).

I think that advanced dancers abuse of that style because they think they can do it but that's not the case. I don't think they're doing that because they want a free hug; advanced dancers don't flirt. Did they ever consider they're doing wrong? If no, then argentine tango will have hard times.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#12
It's VERY possible to do that style well.
BUT, you need good instruction, and you need to work at it.
We often call this style "apliado".

My fave teachers of the style here in Portland have either changed their style, or "retired" from teaching, which is very sad.

Christopher and Caroline are still active. I think they are particularly good, too.
http://www.carolineandchristango.com/

Jennifer Bratt partnered with Robin Thomas for a number of years, and they were both excellent. Haven't seen her teach with her new partnerNey Milo.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#15
Not to mention, it's bloody well difficult to do when you're also trying to use your arms (you know, with your hands attached) in the actual dancing. I find it much more useful just to sing louder than the offending singer, so as to drown them out!
Well if you were doing your CE properly, you wouldn't need your arms or hands, and could use them to cover your ears (although one ear should already be pretty well covered... depending on style of course)
 
#17
My opinion is that CE is no more difficult than OE. In fact, I prefer beginners to start with CE, because for the simple stuff, I think it's easier and more natural.

Walking in OE just feels... I dunno, wrong.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#19
Re: ..What I meant by very close embrace

Why do most men hardly try to dance in close embrace position?
Hi Shaka, welcome here to DF :D

Seems you are to stir up a hornets´nest and some of the folks here have got a water gun behind their back and can hardly await that the party begins.. (must know, it´s a style question, too) And so I´m going to cast the first stone..

Concerning your question: they do so because it hides all the mistakes men usually do (and as you wrote, the follower has to pay for it).

In regular intervals I´m beaten here, cause I don´t stop to claim: lean should be an illusion ! Why am I beaten: a lot of men actually use to dance with phyical wheight transfer as in volcadas.

What I meant by close embrace is actually, very close embrace, chest to chest contact, balance of both partners partially transferred to that point of contact (similar to volcadas but not to this extent).
Concerning terms: I use to call parallel chest to chest contact Apilado style, there is contact, but no considerable weight transfer. Close embrace means, that the guy has it´s right hand at the left shoulder blade of the girl, deep embrace means he´s got his hand round your right blade. The Salón-V embrace isn´t parallel, it´s kind of a deep embrace, but open in an angle at one side so you can do fancy stuff easier and relieve the backbones at the same time.

I'd rather see beginners doing easy steps in open embrace than experts trying to do difficult steps in close embrace.
But mind, open embrace really is much, much more difficult than close embrace. That is the reason why so many dancers avoid open embrace: no follower would catch them!

.. I think that advanced dancers abuse of that style because they think they can do it but that's not the case..
You mean they take some advantage of that situation because they have no means to flirt otherwise?
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#20
would prefer to be the angel...

Fools rush in where - wise men fear to thread....

Have you gone to the milongas in Buenos Aires?
Hi Steve, ok, I take the fool´s part, but then actually: there is nothing more awful than to dance with porteñas and other locals (non-professionals) in BsAs. They hang and stuck to you as a sack.
 

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