Cross Crisis

#21
Thank you Steve, it's nice to know I wasn't completely wrong. The odd thing is I don't completely know what I was doing before but I think it must have been a change of feet and a backstep with the right foot.

It was sort of automatic for a few years but I got a new teacher lately and he's been encouraging me to be more experimental, like I said I was very safe before. The thing is that that's got me thinking about what I'm doing and some of the old material feels less automatic now.

He's been telling me to put in the cortadoe sometimes like you said Steve, step forward once every so often instead of back all the time like we talked about, and add some parauders. He said to take it gently at first with the parauders and other showoff things, he says its like decoration on a cake too much of a good thing gets stale and unapetizing, but to do it sometimes to spice up the dance.

You're taking a forward step in a forward ocho, do you do those often?
Not much here's what's hapening I do actually know how to do a forward ochoe, but I'm always afraid I wont know how to finish it. Confidence issues again my new teacher should help. At the moment I'm sidestepping right, keeping the weight on that foot and pivoting to about 2:00, walking forward (yes your right Tom) with my left leg, pivoting on that to about 11:00 stepping forward with my right leg, but heres where it all falls apart.

Feels like I could either change feet and walk back with the right leg AGAIN, with that footchanging thing a bit like we said with the cross again. But when I do this I sometimes get a bit unbalanced I dont like the footchaging much.

Or I could go backwards with the left given that its sort of "up", as I did that step forward to 11:00 with my right just down which is "down" if you see what I mean. But then i tend to end up in cross after a couple more steps, and then its that whole cross question again I've got to do the footchage AGAIN or walk forward after crossing.Or swing my leg around.

JUst of interest which one do you thin is better after the forward ochoe change feet and walk back with the right, or go back with the left and end up kind of getting myself into a bit of a silly situation where I end up cross-ing as theres not much other choice?
 
#22
JUst of interest which one do you thin is better after the forward ochoe change feet and walk back with the right, or go back with the left and end up kind of getting myself into a bit of a silly situation where I end up cross-ing as theres not much other choice?
Hey everyone, I think we found All Sales Are Final's partner :)

But to actually answer the question - it is not up to you what you should do next. You should do what your partner leads you to do.
 
#24
Hey everyone, I think we found All Sales Are Final's partner :)
Heh, I was sorely tempted to make the same joke...

But now we have two people who seem to have a very confused understanding of how tango works. Either we're being subtly trolled, or there's a lot more truly bad teaching out there than I realized. I mean, how on earth does the follower *initiate* a parada? It makes absolutely no sense to me that it could even be suggested by a teacher.
 

RiseNFall

Well-Known Member
#30
... or there's a lot more truly bad teaching out there than I realized.
Some students are also extremely resistant to getting the idea of lead-and-follow...I know because I've been in classes with them. There is an excellent teacher in this area who really, really, really emphasizes lead-and-follow from the very first class and teaches it well. A (very) few of his students still don't get it. Not so much that they don't lead or follow well as that they don't fully understand the concept. The give-away is when somebody says, "You are supposed to do such-and-such here" to me.
 
#31
Some students are also extremely resistant to getting the idea of lead-and-follow...I know because I've been in classes with them. There is an excellent teacher in this area who really, really, really emphasizes lead-and-follow from the very first class and teaches it well. A (very) few of his students still don't get it. Not so much that they don't lead or follow well as that they don't fully understand the concept. The give-away is when somebody says, "You are supposed to do such-and-such here" to me.
 
#32
Some students are also extremely resistant to getting the idea of lead-and-follow...I know because I've been in classes with them. There is an excellent teacher in this area who really, really, really emphasizes lead-and-follow from the very first class and teaches it well. A (very) few of his students still don't get it. Not so much that they don't lead or follow well as that they don't fully understand the concept. The give-away is when somebody says, "You are supposed to do such-and-such here" to me.
No doubt you are correct, and it's not fair to judge a teacher by their worst students.

But, unless something got lost in the interpretation, this:

He's been telling me to put in the cortadoe sometimes like you said Steve, step forward once every so often instead of back all the time like we talked about, and add some parauders.
is pretty far from mainstream AT lead and follow, and I don't see how a follower can successfully dance socially doing that. (Well, maybe doing an ocho cortado instead of a full ocho, but that's hard to pull off without it coming off as a mistake).
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#35
Thank you Steve, it's nice to know I wasn't completely wrong. The odd thing is I don't completely know what I was doing before but I think it must have been a change of feet and a backstep with the right foot.

It was sort of automatic for a few years but I got a new teacher lately and he's been encouraging me to be more experimental, like I said I was very safe before. The thing is that that's got me thinking about what I'm doing and some of the old material feels less automatic now.

He's been telling me to put in the cortadoe sometimes like you said Steve, step forward once every so often instead of back all the time like we talked about, and add some parauders. He said to take it gently at first with the parauders and other showoff things, he says its like decoration on a cake too much of a good thing gets stale and unapetizing, but to do it sometimes to spice up the dance.


Not much here's what's hapening I do actually know how to do a forward ochoe, but I'm always afraid I wont know how to finish it. Confidence issues again my new teacher should help. At the moment I'm sidestepping right, keeping the weight on that foot and pivoting to about 2:00, walking forward (yes your right Tom) with my left leg, pivoting on that to about 11:00 stepping forward with my right leg, but heres where it all falls apart.

Feels like I could either change feet and walk back with the right leg AGAIN, with that footchanging thing a bit like we said with the cross again. But when I do this I sometimes get a bit unbalanced I dont like the footchaging much.

Or I could go backwards with the left given that its sort of "up", as I did that step forward to 11:00 with my right just down which is "down" if you see what I mean. But then i tend to end up in cross after a couple more steps, and then its that whole cross question again I've got to do the footchage AGAIN or walk forward after crossing.Or swing my leg around.

JUst of interest which one do you thin is better after the forward ochoe change feet and walk back with the right, or go back with the left and end up kind of getting myself into a bit of a silly situation where I end up cross-ing as theres not much other choice?
Sometimes thinking about your dancing is the worst thing you can do for it! :)

But seriously... You should not be thinking about whether you know how to end a pattern. That's the leader's job.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#36
But now we have two people who seem to have a very confused understanding of how tango works. Either we're being subtly trolled, or there's a lot more truly bad teaching out there than I realized. I mean, how on earth does the follower *initiate* a parada? It makes absolutely no sense to me that it could even be suggested by a teacher.
You'd be surprised how many followers go into autopilot, when being led to a front ocho on the leader's right side. I don't know who is teaching some of this, but for that one move, it happens a lot, where the follower will do some choreographed routine (including a parada, and at some point ending in a pasada, whether the guy's foot is extended or not), of course without any consideration for what is being led.

 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#37
You'd be surprised how many followers go into autopilot, when being led to a front ocho on the leader's right side. I don't know who is teaching some of this, but for that one move, it happens a lot, where the follower will do some choreographed routine (including a parada, and at some point ending in a pasada, whether the guy's foot is extended or not), of course without any consideration for what is being led.

Errr... How does that even work?
 
#38
Gosh well I was excited to see so many replies, although seems like the conversation's gone a bit off-topic so I don't know what that's about. But I'm new here so fair enough I guess, and thank you for helping me with my problems! :)

For those who thought my dancing was maybe getting a bit too showy, just to clarify I'm not doing wall-to-wall parauders just one per tanda or so. So if I dance 5 or 6 tandas ina milonga Im only doing it a handful of times a night. enough for a bit of practice without spoiling the fun!

No doubt you are correct, and it's not fair to judge a teacher by their worst students.
well yes your right I am probably one of his worst students at the moment, but that's only because Im also the newest I started only recently with him. He's from Uruguay, quite short actually, but still dashing ina short sortof way if you see what I mean :D He has a reputation for bringing people on quick though, i think it's with the adventurousess they force themselves to do more practice
 
#40
I am not sure it was off topic, since the initial question was "what to do after the cross". The answer is: what's led.

If one chooses not to follow the lead, the answer would be: it makes absolutely no difference what to do next. Whatever comes to mind at the moment.
 

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