Cross Crisis

#42
I apologize, I did not mean to imply that you are in that category - I was replying to RiseNFall who was talking about some of the leaders she dances with.
No offence taken! I just didn't know why the conversation had wandered in multiple directions. But rise and fall and Lilly have explained that (i think).

I didn't get the pole dancing reference though. My friend does pole dancing and she started tangoes too a while ago (she's less advanced than me) but she says their'e less similar than you might think. Apparently pole dancing needs more muscle and supleness, which is harder, but on the other hand you have more space to move around than at a crowded milonga, which makes easier in that respect.

Anyway I saw my teacher again and he said the best is to step on the left (crossing) foot, then the right one will be sort of "ready" for walking back. He also said not to start anything i wasn't ready for, for example instead of crossing if im unsure how to get out of it, I could take a couple of ordinary backward walking steps while i thought about it, then start the cross when I'm ready. I tried that and it gave me a lot of confidence. Such a good guy!! :joyful:

With the ochoes he says to keep ochoeing until I've made up my mind whether to switch feet or risk getting into a cross (either is OK) and then stop and do whatever I decided. He said not to worry if I get it wrong the first time because you can always do a few ordinary walking steps until you've worked out what's happening then change feet as necessary.
 
#45
Oh, perhaps you could tell us more about how it all works?
For example, a cross is basically a stop. If you take a couple of more steps backward instead of stopping, then how you can be sure you are not bumping into something or someone?
And what does your partner do while you do (or don't do) all those steps?
Going back to the pole dancing analogy, what does he do that a pole does not? :)
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#50
Okay so I could have called this "Cross Trouble" with less drama, I just think "Cross Crisis" sounds better!:rofl:

SO I never used to have this trouble before, something's changed, anyway when I do a cross it's the usual thing, step back with my right foot, then bring the left leg over the right.

Only problem is I'm not getting out of it right anymore. I can't remember what I used to do.

When I bring the left leg over the right, it seems like I shouldn't actually step on the left, so the left is again the next to move, isn't that the way it works? But I can't walk back with the left without tripping up because the right leg is still in the way.

I've kind of thought through it logically and worked out that I could do three things, none of them seem right though. Actually step on the left, then the right is next to move and I can go backwards without anything being "in the way", this is tempting but I don't think I ever learned your supposed to step on the left after crossing.

Or use the left foot to move, but go forwards now instead of backwards, honestly this seems like the best choice.

OR, I supose, kind of "circumvent" the right leg with the left, and go backward but swing the left leg around in a big ark so it doesnt bang into the right on the way. This one seems a bit wrong but who knows .

Any better ways of doing it ?:oops:
To me, when one says "the cross" (or the cruzada), they are referring to a specific (and extremely common) step, (i.e. "the cross" doesn't mean just any crossing step). So I was surprised by some of the responses.

In any case, the main point is that the cross is a step. Therefore, it would have a weight change just like any other step would. Also IMO, it is no more of a stop than any other step is. While it's a perfectly good place to stop, there's certainly no need or requirement to stop there. It really just comes down to what is led.

A drill I have followers do (to get used to the cross), is to walk backwards, and then cross every other opportunity (the left foot would cross when stepping back, and then next time the left foot would take a normal step back, without the cross). In this drill there is no pause. It is done while walking to the slow beat.
 
#52
In the cross of the salida cuzada the free leg goes over the standing leg and stops there. In a regular step the free leg passes the standing leg and goes further backward. In that sense the cross is "more of a stop", and in a navigational sense does not equal "a couple of steps backwards", which was my point.
 
#54
To me, when one says "the cross" (or the cruzada), they are referring to a specific (and extremely common) step, (i.e. "the cross" doesn't mean just any crossing step). So I was surprised by some of the responses.

In any case, the main point is that the cross is a step. Therefore, it would have a weight change just like any other step would. Also IMO, it is no more of a stop than any other step is.
Yes, that was the one I meant. Used to be able to do it without a problem but I wasn't really thinking what I do. Then we had this visiting teacher (he was from Argentina, she was from some other part of the world Far East I think).

He kept saying don't immediately step on the crossing foot. And he came and did crosses with me (the specific one D Chester mentions). And he said wait don't step on the crossing foot. And I waited a second before stepping down on it he said again wait don't step on the crossing foot. And I waited five seconds and he says again wait don't step on the crossing foot until I tell you. But he never told me. And he was called away by his partner to demonstrate something else and that was that.

So I thought you NEVER step on the crossing foot. But then to go backward you'd have to go through your not crossing foot, which is impossible, or switch feet, or "circumvent", or go forward instead of back. And I was confused.

But I think was I was doing all along was stepping on the crossing foot and then going back normally, like you describe in your exercise for beginners D Chester. And if it hadn't been for the man from Argentina I would have just carried on an been happy about it he confused me.


Oh, perhaps you could tell us more about how it all works?
For example, a cross is basically a stop. If you take a couple of more steps backward instead of stopping, then how you can be sure you are not bumping into something or someone?
And what does your partner do while you do (or don't do) all those steps?
Going back to the pole dancing analogy, what does he do that a pole does not? :)
That's a rookie thing of course I don't bump into people any more, learn't not to do that in my first few weeks. I look where i'm going of course.

Are you going off topic again? Anyway at risk of taking your bait, I don't know what my partner does, never really paid much attention in classes when teacher was demonstrating men's technique, was too busy concentrating on my own.

And actually some men are quite supple and graceful on the dance floor, not wooden like a pole at all.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#55
How are you looking where you're going? How are you choosing how many ochos to do, or whether to do forward or backward ones? All of this is the leader's job.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#57
That says it all, really. Tango is a different dance: have you tried it?
I interpreted her sentence you quoted to mean, she's doesn't pay attention to the man's steps in classes. Now my interpretation may be incorrect, but that's what I took it to mean.

Clearly, she does need to pay attention to the lead (and try to accompany the leader) when dancing, but I didn't think that was what she was referring to.

It took a lot of time for me to progress all the way to my current level of mediocrity, so I try to cut newbies some slack, (as some kind others did for me). It's a difficult dance to learn and understand.
 
#58
At risk of taking the bait, yet again ;) :
From what the TS has been writing so far, there is no indication of how things her partner does affect her and what she does in any way. Hence, my question: whether the partner is stiff like a wooden pole or supple like a polyurethane pole, is he any more than a traveling pole as far as her choice of steps is concerned? And if so, how?
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#59
And he said wait don't step on the crossing foot. And I waited a second before stepping down on it he said again wait don't step on the crossing foot. And I waited five seconds and he says again wait don't step on the crossing foot until I tell you. But he never told me.
He never gave you a lead ("told me") to step on that foot. He would tell you to step non verbally, with his body.
If you understand that, you are making progress.
 

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#60
I interpreted her sentence you quoted to mean, she's doesn't pay attention to the man's steps in classes. Now my interpretation may be incorrect, but that's what I took it to mean.
I don't think that there is any reason why a follower should ever be interested in what the leader is doing with his feet, unless it is interfering with his lead.

It's a difficult dance to learn and understand.
In many ways it is the easiest of all dances: there is nothing to understand - just to feel and respond. The dance can't be learned, it can only be shared. Anything you might 'learn' is not tango - steps, any steps, for example.
 

Dance Ads