Cross Crisis

#82
I refer to an old post by Lilly_, it's not really that students hear what they want to hear... they hear what they are trained to hear. They hear what translates best to their own thinking of how the move must go in order to be done within their learned parameters of movement. I believe this is what she meant. It is also why I give my dancers movement exercises at the beginnings of every class regardless of level. (sorry for the long post)
It is decidedly so. Creating new pathways and muscle memory takes time, and exercises and drills are useful in that regard.

Also there is another issue about "not hearing stuff in class". Some people early on get a certain idea of what the dance they learn is supposed to be and consist of, and from that moment just dismiss the incoming information that does not fit that idea of theirs. It may happen on a very early stage, when they know next to nothing about the dance. Actually, they do recognize they are beginners and have a lot more to learn. Yet they "know" for sure what they are supposed to be taught, and how exactly. And sometimes they are not shy to instruct their teacher/anyone who is much more experienced than them on the matter. :)
We have seen the examples on this forum (like, practicing walking and stopping to music in a tango lesson was "nonsense", and the student rather go to a teacher who teaches "actual tango" instead), and, I am sure, we all have encountered that phenomenon to some or other extent in real life classes.
 

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#83
We have seen the examples on this forum (like, practicing walking and stopping to music in a tango lesson was "nonsense", and the student rather go to a teacher who teaches "actual tango" instead), and, I am sure, we all have encountered that phenomenon to some or other extent in real life classes.
It's the ready supply of 'actual tango' teachers that bothers me ...
 
#84
It's the ready supply of 'actual tango' teachers that bothers me ...
I guess it is a law of economy, supply and demand. :)
Personally, I decided: there are enough bad dancers in the world, and I am not interested in producing any more of them. And money, it is always possible to make it doing things you believe in.
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
#85
Some people early on get a certain idea of what the dance they learn is supposed to be and consist of, and from that moment just dismiss the incoming information that does not fit that idea of theirs. It may happen on a very early stage, when they know next to nothing about the dance.
Yet they "know" for sure what they are supposed to be taught, and how exactly. And sometimes they are not shy to instruct their teacher/anyone who is much more experienced than them on the matter. :)
Agreed. This is astounding, is it not? :D
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
#86
I'd be interested in hearing about them. It might be worth a separate thread.
I, typically, do not start threads, for perhaps obvious reasons (unless it's for asking or posing a question), but if you would like to do so, I'd be glad to chime in. :) Otherwise, I'd be glad to PM you, as well.
 
#88
2. Secondly, literally 'everything' that we dance in Tango is done within the circle of the embrace. Then, to make it even more difficult, we know to step in/on only 2 areas of that circle... not where ever in the circle we please. The entire dance happens within this overlapped 2 foot space.

This is why the dance is difficult
Elaborate. What 2 areas of that circle? I was always taught you can step in/on any part of the circle you please, as long as it is actually within the circle... are there further restrictions?
 
#89
I don't know about the "two areas", but we cannot "step on/in" any part we please". When we dance in the embrace, we get a certain space our partner gives us. We can take that space stepping into it (depending whether it is cross or parallel system, the space will be in a different place), or not take, stepping outside partner, to the partner's right or left ( also will be a bit of a difference for each case, because open and close side of the embrace are not symmetrical).
If we want comfort, connection and not stepping on partner's feet, we cannot step at random, we got to be aware of the space we can use, and we learn it through various exercises in class and gaining experience dancing. It takes time, and that's why, among other things, tango is difficult.
 
#90
Come to think of it you are right, Lily-of-the-Valley, if you speak about the circle described through the four heels of the dancers, then yes an outside-partner step will not fall within that circle. I was thinking of the bigger circle drawn through the four shoulders, then all my steps are within.

If we step to the man's left, to the open side of the embrace, we have a bit more space it seems than if we step to his right, to the close side? I find I prefer men who send the energy downward within the circle and then I naturally choose to step in the smaller circle you speak about, and tend not to do outside-partner steps.
 
#91
That is why I don't like discussing technical points over the internet: there are so much misunderstandings, the words often end up having no sense. Take four heels of dancers, for example: in the beginning two dancers are right in front of each other with their heels together --- I don't see any "circles" the heels form. How a step may not fall within the circle that the heels form, is beyond my understanding, either, since any step has a heel attached to it?... Outside partner step is within the embrace circle AFAIC, etc etc.... I guess we better call the whole thing off. Sorry!
:)
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
#92
Elaborate. What 2 areas of that circle?
Come to think of it you are right, Lily-of-the-Valley, if you speak about the circle described through the four heels of the dancers, then..............
Lily's posts are spot on, including the reply to the one quoted here. Though it can be a wee technical, do not over-think this. Feet... shoulders... inside / outside... too much technocrap at the moment, and as Lily says, this is often just too hard to discuss well over the web. The concept of moving within the embrace (and only on the 2 points) is simple. Do this;

1. Stand before the embrace with the arms forming a circle afront of you (similar to holding a huge beach ball to the chest). With the palms facing inward, leave approx. 3" between the fingers of the R/L hands. Your partner would do the same.
2. Place the backs of your hands together.
3. Without disturbing the girl's circle, maintain yours as you duck under her arms, and enter her circle. Your arms are now encircling each other.
4. Do not disturb her circle as you -firstly- 'rotate' your entire circle until the right arm finds the girl. Secondly - stop rotating the circle, but continue to slide the left arm back to find the lady's right hand. This is, IMHO, the best embrace.

Now, you have formed the 'circle' of the embrace, and everything that you dance will happen within this circle. The 2 areas, or points, that I referred to are, that we either step straight to the center of the circle, or on the circle. We never step, or duck walk, into the gray areas (the space between the center line of the circle and the circle itself (circumference, if you will). If you wish to step into this space, what Lily was mentioning when speaking of outside, etc., we do not duck walk or step on the diagonal, we rotate the embrace, and maintain the 2 point rule.

Again, ...kind of difficult to get the full concept across in cyber space, sometimes. If you have question or comment, I'm here if you like.
 

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