Dancers you avoid

#81
rothshahar said:
I don't like dancers who dance with me for the first time and then ask me to dance a few more times along the evening. It's ok to dance two or three dances straight but when she comes back and asks for a dance every half an hour I feel that dancing is not what she wants. Of course, if dancing with her is not enough for me either then it's OK :D
Interesting... I'd have the exact opposite reaction.

In ballroom circles here it would be somewhat atypical to do more than one consecutive dance (and very unusual to do more than two) with someone who was not your partner, close friend, or SO. However, it would be very usual to have a number of dances over the course of an evening with the same person if there is mutual enjoyment in doing so.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#82
Chris Stratton said:
rothshahar said:
I don't like dancers who dance with me for the first time and then ask me to dance a few more times along the evening. It's ok to dance two or three dances straight but when she comes back and asks for a dance every half an hour I feel that dancing is not what she wants. Of course, if dancing with her is not enough for me either then it's OK :D
Interesting... I'd have the exact opposite reaction.

In ballroom circles here it would be somewhat atypical to do more than one consecutive dance (and very unusual to do more than two) with someone who was not your partner, close friend, or SO. However, it would be very usual to have a number of dances over the course of an evening with the same person if there is mutual enjoyment in doing so.
Same here.
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#83
This is a weird topic. It seems to have both cultural and dance-genre implications. I think there was an older thread on this (heaven only knows what it was called lol) At any rate, the number of dances that can be politely shared seems to vary pretty dramatically depending on what dance you're doing and what country you're doing it in. *shrug* 8)
 

tsb

Well-Known Member
#84
ShyDancer said:
tsb said:
this scenario is beginning to remind me of an old ethnic joke: an immigrant starts a new job, keeps to himself & says very little. but at lunchtime, his coworkers notice that the new guy looks in his lunch bag, pulls out a sandwich, looks at it, sighs and says "peanuts-a-butter. i HATE peanuts-a-butter" before eating the sandwich. this goes on for a couple of weeks before one of his coworkers finally works up the nerve to ask the guy: "why don't you ask your wife to make you something else?" the guy says: "no wife. i make own lunch!"
I hope you arent insinuating that I encourage his behaviour or enjoy it in a twisted way.
no, but i hope that you understand that until you chose to share with us further details including the reason for your reluctance to terminate/minimize conact with this person, the picture we were getting was (given a review of most responses) one that had a lot of people genuinely concerned for your well being. had you elected to mention those details initially, or had you responded sooner to previous posts suggesting that you contact the studio owners we would have been better able to support whatever choice you make in terms of dealing with the situation.

I can see where you are coming from, but the thing that makes it very difficult is that he has a minor disability, I dont want it to appear that this is the reason I dont want to dance with him.
including this detail changes things a lot.

He is always telling everyone who will listen how hard done by he is because of his arm (its bent but he still uses it) and how no one will dance with him because of it. He lives alone and is very lonely...you know the usual sob story.
I let him get away with it for so long because I felt sorry for him and all of his stories.

I dont see any point telling the owners, there is not much they can do, after all I have already told him to his face that all the attention is unwanted.
I find it very hard to be upfront and mean to people, espescially when they start laying guilt trips on me.
I also dont want to cause any uneasiness at the studio because its one of the states top studios and I really love everyone else there.
Most of them know the situation and they "rescue" me as much as they can. I dont want to make it so Im uncomfortable going there.
i would also be very uncomfortable doing something that would lead to anything that makes this person (btw, what is his name? i'm going to refer to him as "john") feel more excluded than he does now. i commend your sense of compassion.
 
#85
ShyDancer said:
I can see where you are coming from, but the thing that makes it very difficult is that he has a minor disability, I dont want it to appear that this is the reason I dont want to dance with him.
He is always telling everyone who will listen how hard done by he is because of his arm (its bent but he still uses it) and how no one will dance with him because of it. He lives alone and is very lonely...you know the usual sob story.
I let him get away with it for so long because I felt sorry for him and all of his stories.
This is a toughie... I guess I'm inclined to speculate that society has a duty to be welcoming and inclusive, but it should not necessarily be the burden of shydancer (or any other single indvidual) to serve as the world's caseworker for reaching out to this particular person - particularly if he is making her personally uncomforable.

I dont see any point telling the owners, there is not much they can do, after all I have already told him to his face that all the attention is unwanted.
Well, actually there is something they and other leading members of the dance community could do. That would be to ask the guy to dance, but be very insistent and vocal in their expectations about what constitutes an appropriate lead and related behaviour. In short, they could reach out to him and try to show him how to become a welcomed and valued member of the dance community, and they are in a much better position to do this than shydancer is. (if they don't want to ban him from the studio, investing in giving him a little free instruction around socials may be the best business decisions too if it can stop him from driving others away). Of course the guy may not find this process easy either - it's not likely to get him a date in the short run, but perhaps he can understand that he's unlikely to ever get a date with anyone until he first learns how to be seen as a friendly, normal part of the community.
 

Sagitta

Well-Known Member
#86
Chris Stratton said:
rothshahar said:
I don't like dancers who dance with me for the first time and then ask me to dance a few more times along the evening. It's ok to dance two or three dances straight but when she comes back and asks for a dance every half an hour I feel that dancing is not what she wants. Of course, if dancing with her is not enough for me either then it's OK :D
Interesting... I'd have the exact opposite reaction.

In ballroom circles here it would be somewhat atypical to do more than one consecutive dance (and very unusual to do more than two) with someone who was not your partner, close friend, or SO. However, it would be very usual to have a number of dances over the course of an evening with the same person if there is mutual enjoyment in doing so.
Ditto! Except there instances when one enjoys dancing with a person. Perhaps you know there aren't many people who are good enough at the dance, such as when they play mambo or cha cha. Thne if you both want a couple good dances you dance those, and when it comes on again you might look for the same person again.
 

Sagitta

Well-Known Member
#87
Chris Stratton said:
ShyDancer said:
I can see where you are coming from, but the thing that makes it very difficult is that he has a minor disability, I dont want it to appear that this is the reason I dont want to dance with him.
He is always telling everyone who will listen how hard done by he is because of his arm (its bent but he still uses it) and how no one will dance with him because of it. He lives alone and is very lonely...you know the usual sob story.
I let him get away with it for so long because I felt sorry for him and all of his stories.
This is a toughie... I guess I'm inclined to speculate that society has a duty to be welcoming and inclusive, but it should not necessarily be the burden of shydancer (or any other single indvidual) to serve as the world's caseworker for reaching out to this particular person - particularly if he is making her personally uncomforable.
I disagree. I know people with disabilities who are amazing dancers. One person with a stub for one hand, (no elbow, fingers..) and another with missing fingers. It is not the disability but the attitude that is the problem in my opinion.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#88
I'm sorry, having a bent arm doesn't give you license to be an *ss, to not take lessons and inflict your bad dancing on others, or to get free instruction. He's using it as a crutch, and he shouldn't be allowed to. When he says "no one will dance with me because of my disability," you should do him a service and say, "no, it's because you hurt them and argue with them."
 

DancePoet

Well-Known Member
#89
Shy Dancer:

How this situation was being related to us on this thread was certainly causing many of us concern for your safety. Obviously the new details of the situation certainly changes my understanding. A physical disability could very much be impacting the nature of this entire situation.

It is my current view that reviewing this situation with the studio owners still makes sense. It certainly is not one individual's responsibility, such as yourself, to be the only member of your dancing community to include him. I would encourage you to get other opinion leaders on board with you, and the studio owners seem to be the most logical place to start.
 
#90
twnkltoz said:
1. The guy who does some sort of weird peabody to every single dance in this little shuffling step. Worse, wears a sweater ALWAYS and never washes it.
You know that guy, too? He's a regular here. :wink:
 
#91
Sagitta said:
Chris Stratton said:
This is a toughie... I guess I'm inclined to speculate that society has a duty to be welcoming and inclusive, but it should not necessarily be the burden of shydancer (or any other single indvidual) to serve as the world's caseworker for reaching out to this particular person - particularly if he is making her personally uncomforable.
I disagree. I know people with disabilities who are amazing dancers. One person with a stub for one hand, (no elbow, fingers..) and another with missing fingers. It is not the disability but the attitude that is the problem in my opinion.
Exactly - it's an attitude problem being blamed on something that might have at one point been a contributing factor, but is now far eclipsed by the attitude problem. If he learned to dance well in a setting of people who were supportive (people who could afford to be understanding and supportive as a result of not having been dragged into overly close involvment) the arm would probably be a relative non-issue.
 

tsb

Well-Known Member
#92
Chris Stratton said:
Sagitta said:
Chris Stratton said:
This is a toughie... I guess I'm inclined to speculate that society has a duty to be welcoming and inclusive, but it should not necessarily be the burden of shydancer (or any other single indvidual) to serve as the world's caseworker for reaching out to this particular person - particularly if he is making her personally uncomforable.
I disagree. I know people with disabilities who are amazing dancers. One person with a stub for one hand, (no elbow, fingers..) and another with missing fingers. It is not the disability but the attitude that is the problem in my opinion.
Exactly - it's an attitude problem being blamed on something that might have at one point been a contributing factor, but is now far eclipsed by the attitude problem. If he learned to dance well in a setting of people who were supportive (people who could afford to be understanding and supportive as a result of not having been dragged into overly close involvment) the arm would probably be a relative non-issue.
i can imagine where this guy 'john' (he deserves a name, don't you think?) got excluded a lot in his past specifically because of his disability, which is something he has no control over. i suspect that 'john' continues to attribute present day exclusion to that disability (call it victimhood for want of a better term) when it is in fact a consequence of his behavior, which he does have control over. so i see potential issues as being:

- who explains this to 'john';
- 'john' not being able to grasp this concept (no pun intended) even if someone were in a position to explain this to him;
 
#93
tsb said:
- who explains this to 'john';
- 'john' not being able to grasp this concept (no pun intended) even if someone were in a position to explain this to him;
Maybe it doesn't have to be explained at first - if good assertive/self-protective followers ask him to dance but influence him towards doing it in a way such that they can be physically comfortable, maybe he can learn some things before he even realizes that there's an agenda involved.
 
#94
ShyDancer said:
The only way I can see myself getting out of this comfortably is to refuse every dance and no longer talk to him in a friendly manner. I will say what is absolutely necessary if he comes over but I am just going to walk away from him, even if it means I have to get up and leave the room.
He will eventually have to get the hint.
Yep, this sounds like it will work. It will probably take longer than you expect it to, and there will be guilt trips. Be strong!

Cheers
Sarah
 
#95
If I try and quote everything I wanted to reply to here this would go on forever! So ill jut try and reply ...

He KNOWS its not his arm that is the problem, in fact he is an ok lead in the latin, (apart from the jive) and Ive told him this a few times because he keeps asking me. Other styles he is terrible but I havent told him that...yet.

As for the safety issue, I do think its becoming a major concern, Just because he has a small disability doesnt mean he is any less dangerous than an able bodied person...he waits in his car for me to arrive before my lessons and social (2 nights)and as soon as he sees me enter the car park he jumps out and runs over before I even have a chance to switch the engine off.
He leaves when I do, even if it means waiting half the night for me to leave, then walks me to my car and wants to stand there chatting for 20 minutes.
He also follows me for about 10 minutes in his car...given he has to travel the same way to get home but he speeds up when I do, or slows down, once he even pulled in to a shop because I stopped to get a drink, just so he could ask why I stopped.
He keeps wanting my phone number and address so he can pick me up "on the way" so I dont have to drive myself. Both of which I refuse to give him of course so he insisted I take his number and put it in my mobile (or cell), when I wouldnt do that he wrote it on paper and handed it to me.
He sits and watches my class ( he doesnt take one) until it finishes, sometimes he tries to follow the routine and tells me its so we can dance to it later.
Recently he went a bought copies of my standard and latin routines, put them in a folder and brings them to the social dances and insists on referring to them so we can "practice" them.

I have considered telling him to completely back off otherwise Id involve the police (intervention order) but honestly I just dont have the courage to do it.


I'm sorry, having a bent arm doesn't give you license to be an *ss, to not take lessons and inflict your bad dancing on others, or to get free instruction. He's using it as a crutch, and he shouldn't be allowed to. When he says "no one will dance with me because of my disability," you should do him a service and say, "no, it's because you hurt them and argue with them."
I have told him that its his attitude that I dont like, but after 5 minutes its like nothing happened and he is back at it.
Im not the only person to have told him this either, I know 2 others who told him the same thing.

Last week I was so rude to him, Im hoping he was so offended he will leave me alone tonight but I dont it will. Even though I have been getting periods of feeling terribly guilty I dont want to apologise when he brings it up.
 
#98
Unfortunately I just remembered there was a case of a woman being beaten or murdered in a police station parking lot by her ex... all the officers were out on calls, or tied up inside and unaware of what was going on or something.

Which goes to say that while driving there has a sense of poetry, having the emergency numbers on cell phone speed dial is more appropriate.

Any friends who could play social escort/buddy for a while?

----

Actually, on further research at least one case like the one I'm thinking of was even worse - the victim was one of four people in the car, the police were called on a cell phone before the victim and her pursuer arrived at the station, and at least one officer responded in time to fire shots - but not in time to prevent her death.
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#99
Oh my goodness. This guy is a stalker.

Did I ever tell you about Chuck, the resident lech where I used to work? He had had a car accident many years before, and was confined to a wheelchair. And he was a menace. I used to work in an old manufacturing plant, and had to travel through the basement to get to my office. Chuck was always waiting, and man could he "run" while following you in a wheelchair. I mean it was creepy how he'd pop up in the labyrinth of hallways. Yuck! The fact that he was physically challenged (American PC term for disabled) made it worse, because I felt bad about disrespecting him. But the truth is, any able-bodied person who made those kinds of remarks to me or who followed me through the halls would have gotten reported and likely fired. The company where I used to work was VERY strict about harassment. I finally ended up entering work from the opposite side of the building and avoiding him. (There were no handicapped ramps on that side.)


Your case probably won't be so simple. As I said before, it's up to you to decide how you want to handle this. But, while you're deciding, consider how you'd handle an able-bodied person who treated you the same way. I'm guessing an elbow strike (kickboxing class LOL) or a restraining order might be your choice. The disabled people I know (at least the activist ones) don't want you to make special allowances for their disabilities. This guy is likely playing on your sympathy because he can get away with it.

No matter what you decide, the guilt is NOT yours. Do what you need to do to feel safe.
 

DancePoet

Well-Known Member
So ... we are back to the safety issue again.

Clearly action needs to be taken by Shy Dancer to protect herself. This seems like a very dangerous situation, with or without a disability.

Shy Dancer: You need to talk with an attorney and the police to determine what your options are, and exactly what the best course of action should be. I sincerely hope you do this soon, and before you go back to attending that studio. This guy sounds far too unstable for you not to take action to protect yourself.

I know you can summon up the courage to do this.
 

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