There is no way you can now in advance whether or not a guy will repsect a no. In order to be 'sure' that her arse will never be touched again, which was your requirement for handling the situation satisfactory, she will have to resort to a one-size-fits-all solution. You didn't say it, but it's the logical consequence of what you said.
I can now see how you drew that conclusion, but I don't believe that to be the case. There are grades of reaction between `sledgehammer' and `wet noodle', and I at least think that it's most ethical to pick the minimum effective level of reaction. Picking an ineffective level IME escalates the situation, sometimes to the point of damage. No you can't ever be %100 certain, but any adult should be able to make an informed guess.
In my oppinion, she handled it perfectly. She said 'NO!'. Most guys will respect it, some won't. For those that don't respect it, stronger actions need to be taken. But that's impossible to know in advance. (Unless the guy has a reputation/history that says otherwise.)
It is my opinion however, that if Pacion provided a straighforward and unambiguous no, and if her problem guy ignored it, then protecting his feelings is no longer any responsibility of her's.
I now believe that the heart of our disagreement is that Pacion's statements that I first quoted led me to believe that she was not being unambiguous in her communication with problem-guy, that she was making excuses for him and that she was not treating him like a reasonable, responsible, grown-up human being. And if you think about it, its hardly fair on him to expect him to see and respond to annoyance that is being hidden - effectively lied about - in the name of not overreacting.
Your initial sentence
This is why I don't like it when women come together and start talking about these things. You women always seem to talk each other into being harder, meaner, tougher and less compassionate.... or in a single word: overreact.
Too many. Too too many.
Someone suggested upthread, before I even posted, that I teach Pacion some wristlocks. I'd rather teach her the power of a raised eyebrow in the right place at the right time. :?
May I ask you for a story? Under what circumstances were you on the recieving end of a woman's overreaction. By PM if you prefer.
one of the typical pranks we played during college was to swipe somebody's clothes & keys while they were in the shower. i'll never forget how one guy calmly wrapped himself up in a shower curtain like a toga, went to the front desk and had someone let him into his room (coed dorm). he wasn't embarrassed at all - and he got his revenge by dissembling the perpetrator's bed and reassembling it - in the women's restroom. i think he was from the detroit area too (I went to U-M in ann arbor).
How did I miss this? Well, I'm about to hijack this thread somewhat off topic, but hey why not? :lol:
Tsb - Ah, good old college memories...back when I was in school we would steal each other's clothes and keys all the time...leaving the poor guy left with only one option, running out with the shower curtain wrapped around them. What a mean prank!
One time we did this to a friend of ours, so firstly we ran in and stole his towel, and then dumped a bucket of cold water on him and while he was shrieking we stole his keys. And, since we had a co-ed dorm (girls on the second floor), we invited them all down to watch him coming out of the bathroom, while we video taped the entire spectacle!
My friend comes roaring out of the bathroom with the curtain wrapped around him (he was a bit tiffed to put it midly) and then we grabbed the curtain and pulled it off of him (and made sure our camera guy got all of this)...but then he freaked out and starting running after us...what do you do when a naked man starts charing after you? As I recall he then chased us upstairs and around the ladies' floor for a while (he was in really good shape so I think he may have even gotten a date or two) and eventually we gave him his stuff back. :shock:
But the better part is when they got me back since I sort of instigated the whole prank. My friends stole my towel and clothes (but not my keys!) and then I came out with the shower curtain around me. Such was their deviousness, they had broken into my dorm room through the window and placed a wooden wedge under my door from the inside, leaving me unable to get into my room somewhat permanently, and all I had was that flimsy curtain (which they tried to take off but ended up getting punched for their efforts). Eventually I plowed through the door (and almost broke it), but I think we decided a truce after all that was over.... :roll:
if we're going to off topic about pranks - one of the best i ever saw was when a hallmate had a girlfriend visiting from out of town. we purposely started calling numbers very close to the hallmate's number, and when a female answered, we'd said. "mom, i'm done, can you pick me up now?" of course they'd eventually figure it out and tell us they had the wrong number so we'd say: "sorry to bother you, but i just used my last quarter. would you call this number, ask for _________(girlfriend's name) and tell her that ________ (hallmate's name) is hoping to get picked up tonight..."
even if the good samaritan didn't say it quite that way, it was pretty funny to hear sue say "but hector's right here!"
:tongue: only to somewhere that is "dry and with an abundance of cappaccinos in supply" :lol:
As some of you know, I have been away, and just got back. Soooo I haven't been jumping and rubbing my hands with glee, at a safe distance, as GR would suggest :lol:
There is a lot to take in here but there are a few things that need to be said/clarified here (and let me see if I can get to ten without repeating myself once :wink: ).
a) someone mentioned about women overreacting? Perhaps. But, that should be said/remembered in the context of the parties. I am not a violent person - my bark is worse than my bite. Therefore, I wouldn't break someone's wrist just for touching my bum or such like, which is, truth be said, over reacting. However, guys, in general should be aware of taking such "liberties" with someone that you are barely acquainted with/know in the Biblical sense (c) Pygmalion :wink:
b) I am of a very jovial disposition. Therefore, as I think I indicated earlier, I might have some responsibility for the guy in question not getting the message first time. There is other stuff I have not mentioned here but, this guy knows that he can't take certain liberties/presume certain things about me and therefore, really ought to know better than to touch me in such a friendly manner. Due to his behaviour in general, I have had people ask me if we were in somethin' :shock: but, as he is like that with lots of other women, I didn't get upset and just explained that he is like that with lots of other women, as they themselves know/have seen.
c) I can be incredibly firm, when I want to be and have made it very plain to guys either by the stiffness in my arms (when they want to hold me too close :evil: ) or by heading off into the opposite direction, when their attentions were unwelcomed. I think at the time I posted this thread, I was a bit sensitive/emotional about other things in my life and, to quote a well intended phrase, created a "tempest in a teapot"
d) I still believe that this is a genuine "problem" though, where men, generally believe that they are being friendly, not realising that their tactial hands are going places that could result in them being chopped off a la Uma :twisted:
e) umm, okay, I am here at five and I think, have not repeated myself. In summary/short, to recap - embarassing anyone in what might be a "first demeaner" is possibly an overreaction (not knowing someone else's history/experiences being an unknown variable). Being tactile/flirtious with one's hands is the behaviour of a teenage, not a "mature young man" where the friendship is one of acquaintance - in my opinion. What goes on between good friends is another matter entirely.
Oh, and I just remember one more!
f) as I said in my first post, I was told/taught as a child that a guy touching you on your bum was disrespectful <fullstop> Perhaps if this guy had a similiar upbringing/childhood we would not be having this discussion now?
i say 'graba$$ing' is not a function of age.. but simply to the level of intimacy between the grabber and grabbee.. if its acceptable.. grab away .. up to the moment you're on your death bed.. get in that last squeeze so u can set your soul free :shock: LMAO! 8)