Englighten me, Please...

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#1
I don't want to be forming an attitude and so I'm asking to be informed.
This is a link to a 'teaching' video that I hold is probably the future of
'Argentine' tango in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoq6ioMsQ0
The question; is it "Argentine" Tango or just 'tango',
whereupon it will probably gravitate to some new name in the future?
Second question: Do students actually learn to dance this? Most that I've seen spend a year taking classes and then can only look down at their feet and have a sheepish smile on their face as they try to get thru the first two or three steps. Third question:..what do you think of it..will it be THE new pop dance of the future that I'm guessing it will?:confused:
 
#2
I don't want to be forming an attitude and so I'm asking to be informed.
This is a link to a 'teaching' video that I hold is probably the future of
'Argentine' tango in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoq6ioMsQ0
The question; is it "Argentine" Tango or just 'tango',
whereupon it will probably gravitate to some new name in the future?
Second question: Do students actually learn to dance this? Most that I've seen spend a year taking classes and then can only look down at their feet and have a sheepish smile on their face as they try to get thru the first two or three steps. Third question:..what do you think of it..will it be THE new pop dance of the future that I'm guessing it will?:confused:
If it is any tango at all I would call it "Alternative". People who attend this couple classes here in the Bay Area dance in alternative venues (I would hesitate calling them milongas).
It is not new, and certainly not the dance of the future. It is a niche for people who want to do... eh... lets say, what they do, and call it tango.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#3
It's Argentine tango, it's not that unusual, it's not necessarily the future for everyone and everything. To my eyes it looked fairly traditional, with the exception of a few moves and a different embrace that was used now and again.

This, being a didactic exercise, shows it being used more than I would ever like to see it used in the course of the dance.

As for "do people actually learn it," are you serious or just trying to start a flame war? It's a didactic video. Which means it was meant to demonstrate what was taught in a class. Which I'm guessing would be the people sitting there watching. Which meant that people do learn it...or are taught it...or are instructed in it or guided in it or illucidated or whatever other term strikes anyone's fancy.

I have learned "it" (what ARE we talking about, anyhow--nuevo dancing (dear god, lets not go there again) or the alternative embrace that's highlighted in the video?) as part of multiple private lessons over the course of three years. It is a very interesting exercise in following. Or do you mean nuevo dancing? Yes, people learn it all the time, next question.

As for people looking down at their feet...what does that have to do with the price of eggs? Some people take classes for years and never get it; some people take private lessons and learn quickly; some people just never seem to get it; some people figure they can learn on the floor and...whoo boy.

As for being "the pop dance of the future." Again..are you serious? The pop dance of the future will be some variation on grinding/freaking/freestyling (or whatever the kids these days are doing and calling it). Or do you mean the future of tango? Not that I belive it, but I feel like just going ahead and saying yes. Mourn Real Tango (tm) now.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#4
Shirt in or above? That´s the question behind!

Hi Mario, you want to challenge me, do you ;)

Think I heard a little polemical tone in it, right? But, I do not want to comment on the dancing shown above.

I think it is not a question of argentine or alternative tango.
Its a question of style,
of proficiency,
of age, and of your dancing community.

Believe me, the plural of tango dancers in BAs are dancing this way, but you will not find out, unless you visite their venues. Only tourists are dancing all the way traditionally.

Tango is a social dance, and that means: men follow women, women follow venues, venues follow styles. Better to wear your shirt above the trousers and have fun. By the way, you are the same age as me.
 
#7
Hi Lilly, do you know why they mimic Homer´s lay out?
I am not sure I understand what you mean.
The video is taken by the same student who regularly attends the same string of lessons in Cellspace (featured in this video) and The Beat. He videotapes the class demos and performances at those and other venues (different set of youtube videos) as part of a didactic project started by Homer and Co. You can find a link to the videos on Homer's website Organic Tango.
Does that answer your question?
 

Ampster

Active Member
#8
I don't want to be forming an attitude and so I'm asking to be informed.
This is a link to a 'teaching' video that I hold is probably the future of
'Argentine' tango in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoq6ioMsQ0
The question; is it "Argentine" Tango or just 'tango',
whereupon it will probably gravitate to some new name in the future?
This is in cell space in San Francisco. This is the same crowd as that is predominantly "Nuevo" and/or "Alternative" milonga crowd. The same crowd who are followers of Home and Christina Ladas of San Francisco.

As for the name, its all "Argentine Tango." In the AT circle, its known as Tango. It may be nuevo, milonguero, salon, etceteras, but its all tango. The exception is Ballroom tango which is a totally different thing

As for the future of tango... Depends on the demographic. This type of dancing has always been popular with younger tango dancers, as they get 9easily) enamored with the cool moves. Or, with people who just like showy stuff, and some just like to show off. But, when one gets more mature, and a deep appreciation for that "Tango Connection" develops, then people gravitate towards the more intimate close embrace tango forms.

Second question: Do students actually learn to dance this? Most that I've seen spend a year taking classes and then can only look down at their feet and have a sheepish smile on their face as they try to get thru the first two or three steps.
People try to learn this, not all succeed. Some people try to force stuff like this on the floor leading to complications and a botched tanda. IMHE and IMHO, too many people try to do stuff like this without learning the basics. The need for instant gratification becomes self defeating in the long run. Tango (AT) are one of those things that takes time to learn and before you can be good. Any move poorly executed is painful to dance... and to watch.

Third question:..what do you think of it..will it be THE new pop dance of the future that I'm guessing it will?:confused:
For a pop dance, NOPE. Tango (and any partner dance) takes too long to learn, as opposed to the macarena, the electric slide, the bump and grind, etceteras, that require hardly any training. So, in answer to your third question Nooooo.
 
#10
People try to learn this, not all succeed. Some people try to force stuff like this on the floor leading to complications and a botched tanda. IMHE and IMHO, too many people try to do stuff like this without learning the basics. The need for instant gratification becomes self defeating in the long run. Tango (AT) are one of those things that takes time to learn and before you can be good. Any move poorly executed is painful to dance... and to watch.
Very true.
 
#11
The question; is it "Argentine" Tango or just 'tango',
whereupon it will probably gravitate to some new name in the future?
Plain old argentine tango.
Of course the style is different, but soltadas existed one century ago...

Maybe it's not the most important thing to teach to a beginner, not the best move to do in a crowded milonga, while it can be very good for a show...
Anyway students can learn it: it is not more difficult to lead and follow than any other step.
 
#12
Thanks for the many replies...ok you've answered my questions nicely..but one which I didn't phrase properly....do you think that this form of tango will ultimately replace traditional? Please, excuse my bluntness but when I read Jan's blog on the Milonguero dance, it starts to read like the obituary pages ..and in the videos of traditional dances like Lo de Celia, all the white hair and years-of-pasta bellies add up to a place that young folk are shunning...are we viewing the dance of the elephant's graveyard?..is the embrace a thing of yesteryear? Will dances like the video above be the way tango is danced in the future?...Is it becoming popular in BsAs among the young? Afterall, 30 years from now, today's young will be the oldest of the dancers.
 
#13
Thanks for the many replies...ok you've answered my questions nicely..but one which I didn't phrase properly....do you think that this form of tango will ultimately replace traditional? Please, excuse my bluntness but when I read Jan's blog on the Milonguero dance, it starts to read like the obituary pages ..and in the videos of traditional dances like Lo de Celia, all the white hair and years-of-pasta bellies add up to a place that young folk are shunning...are we viewing the dance of the elephant's graveyard?..is the embrace a thing of yesteryear? Will dances like the video above be the way tango is danced in the future?...Is it becoming popular in BsAs among the young? Afterall, 30 years from now, today's young will be the oldest of the dancers.
Mario, I was in Buenos Aires last November-December, also the same time in 2008. From my observations, and from many of my friends reports, too, traditional tango gains in popularity. There are more people in traditional milongas in general, much more younger people,too. Also I found more venues with great dancers to dance with the way I love to dance. Lo de Celia, yes, tends to get older crowd, and in general on a week night older people go out to dance. But on the weekends, there are more younger milongueros, and lots of them dance very well. This time I met people from over the world (including some places that had been initially put on the map as tango deserts or bad-tango-places, and for a good reason :) ) including leaders, who were great dancers. That was new from my previous visit, and a very nice surprise.
Actually, I see somewhat similar trend in my community. More tango newcomers are drawn to traditional ways.
 
#14
Take heart, Mario. The situation in BsAs is better than some would say. I have been reassured from some dancers that live there, and a few more that visit frequently (one that is concidentally in two of Jantango's videos), that the younger generation is *not* abandoning the style and traditions of the older milongueros. Lily-of-the-Valley is quite correct - rumours of the death of traditional tango have been greatly exaggerated.
 
#15
I am seeing a similar trend beginning (very slowly) in my own community.

Actually, I see somewhat similar trend in my community. More tango newcomers are drawn to traditional ways.
 

Ampster

Active Member
#16
....do you think that this form of tango will ultimately replace traditional? Please, excuse my bluntness but when I read Jan's blog on the Milonguero dance, it starts to read like the obituary pages ..and in the videos of traditional dances like Lo de Celia, all the white hair and years-of-pasta bellies add up to a place that young folk are shunning...are we viewing the dance of the elephant's graveyard?
Yes, its true the milonguero viejos are dyeing off. However, there are droves of people who dance in close embrace. Yes, their passing will be lamented, but the close embrace style will carry on.

Why? because people want and need to be embraced. Done properly, it's intimate, respectful, and it just simply feels good. It even feels better when you can dance in a tango in a close embrace.

You can dance in the open and look good, but you can't have as intimate a feeling when you dance in the open. However, it really is impressive to watch (executed properly).

There will always be close embrace people and nuevo people. They just shift from style to style.

Close embrace is just as challenging to learn.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#17
Mario, there is typically a difference in what someone does in a demo or performance, vs plain old social dancing at a milonga. I didn't see much of anything I would consider to be new, and I wouldn't worry too much about it.

FWIW, what would be your take on this performance (below)? This is why I've said in the past that not all milongueros danced milonguero style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWwDIfb6J30
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#18
Mario, you cling to your style. You are looking for certainty. But, everything flows. And already did flow in the history of tango.

And I think it belongs to a sincere education, to throw over one´s former aimes again and again, and to begin anew.

...is the embrace a thing of yesteryear?..
Tango once started with an open embrace, so let it return to this way of holding for a while. It will continue changing every decade, anyway.

..when I read Jan's blog on the Milonguero dance, it starts to read like the obituary pages .....
Already posted my observations among the young generation of BsAs above. But, the style has already changed indeed, except among the children out of the old dynasties and families of Urquiza.

Before tango I did TaiJi. And the quarrels among the different styles and familiy traditions are sooo similar.
 
#20
I don't want to be forming an attitude and so I'm asking to be informed.
This is a link to a 'teaching' video that I hold is probably the future of
'Argentine' tango in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoq6ioMsQ0
What makes you think a single video focussing on a single step shows the direction of AT across a continent-wide country? :confused:

The question; is it "Argentine" Tango or just 'tango',
Well, it's a soltada.

Are "soltadas" Argentine Tango? I dunno, but I've been taught soltadas by Argentinian Tango teachers.

For example, I attended a Pablo Alonso class on soltadas last August.

To me, it's a nuevo step. Whether "nuevo" is AT, is another question.


Second question: Do students actually learn to dance this?
I can only speak for myself, and the answer is yes, I learnt soltadas and occasionally use them.

Third question:..what do you think of it..will it be THE new pop dance of the future that I'm guessing it will?:confused:
What, nuevo or soltadas?
 
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