Finding Partners at Milongas

#41
I didn't tailgate and he lead a big step coupled with dancing in open position, taking up more room than he's entitled.

People like him will never survive in BA. When I went to BA, the Argentine women didn't seem very forgiving for collisions.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#42
I didn't say you were tailgating (and as I said, you have my sympathies, and your follower has even more), but I often like to interject things so that others won't start misinterpreting things.

Mind you, I know some "pros" who would survive (and do) on a crowded BsAs floor but who do power grabs on festival floors as well (marking a 3x2m territory by aggressively moving in the four corners). I'm usually even less forgiving of those, because they're usually doing it on purpose: they simply feel that their Tango God status entitles them to more space than the mere peons dancing next to them.
 
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#43
People like him will never survive in BA. When I went to BA, the Argentine women didn't seem very forgiving for collisions.
And is that particularly relevant outside of BsAs?
I like to do larger steps at our local milonga with enough space to do that.
So I have to adapt myself more or less on a crowed floor, just a matter of experience.
On Friday I caused a collision when I was busy with new stuff - sorry, that happens.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#44
Yes, it's particularly relevant outside of BsAs as well. Civility on the dance floor shouldn't be restricted to that part of the world.

Obviously, that doesn't mean that everyone should be dancing small regardless of the space. But dancing big without regards for the others is a big no-no (but isn't the only one. Dancing small and slow because "that's the way it's done in BsAs" --note ironic quoting-- and causing a traffic jam behind you is also uncivil).

"Trying new stuff" is more appropriate for a práctica. But of course we all have moments in which we get carried away, or try something we think we master but that goes off the rails (especially with an unfamiliar partner). As long as you (impersonal "you") apologize, I don't think anyone will hold it against you for very long.
 
#45
Yes, it's particularly relevant outside of BsAs as well. Civility on the dance floor shouldn't be restricted to that part of the world.
Okay, I used a mistakable wording. :confused:
Someone who generally does not take care for other couples at a milonga will not philosophize much whether he would survive far away in BsAs or not...
...at least I would put different arguments on top.

P.S.: And I personally have time to prepare for dancing in small space, I think it won't be such a big topic. :cool:
 
#46
For example, that is a typical setup for a milonga at the mentioned studio:
It's not about that particular place, it's the details that you can get looking at a photo of a milonga place.

Your photo shows good seating: it's easy to approach a woman and ask her, there is plenty of space for dancing: you can try nice steps.
There is a disturbing detail, of course: men dance with each other - there are not enough women, but a good female dancer will dance a lot.

It'll be very difficult to invite sitting women at this milonga. Though, it'll be somewhat easier to invite women standing in the back.
The dancing area is too small for that many people, they will be like sardines in a can.
 
#47
That's the point: the photo with the balloons you showed was not a photo of a milonga place. It was a photo of a Christening party place.

For a good female dancer to dance a lot a particular setup is not the main condition. Enough good male dancers got to be present. ;)
 
#48
No one is standing in the back in Sunderland. Those people stood up to see a performance. And there is very little mixer going on: it is a barrio milonga.
You seem to keep musing about things and situations that do not exist in real life.
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#49
But you (the impersonal "you", not you in particular) should also leave room for the couple in front of you to at least do one small step backwards or a giro/molinete that does send his lady in your direction, though. If you really tailgate someone then you are endangering your partner, idiot in front or not.

What everyone should strive to do is try to divide the space between the antecessor and the successor couples, all the time, so that every couple has some wiggle room to navigate. And that includes some room for rotational moves, because leaders need to rotate in order to get an overview of where others are.
Just as a sidenote - it is entirely possible to dance a giro/molinete without sending the follower against the line of dance, it only requires the leader to switch places with the follower. Almost everything can be danced without doing any backwards movement (i can't think off the cuff of anything that actually requires a backward movement of the couple, but there probably is something). Usually by making it centered not around the leader, but around the center of the couple (which requires a bit more footwork on the leaders side), or by tightly curving it sideways and making use of the space to the left and right - most of the leaders back steps can be crossed instead, and the lead adjusted accordingly.

I find it helpful to think of the space behind me as "owned" by the couple following me, and if i use it i usually want to be able to have seen it before i encroach on it. In general the problem i see with using the space behind me is not really people crashing, as soon as everybody has at least intermediate skills that only rarely happens, but with the overall flow of the ronda. As soon as anybodies forward motion slows/stops it causes a ripple effect, and everything slows down. This has nothing to do with the size of ones movement - it is actually easier to move continuously forward when dancing large than when dancing compact.

The rondas i like least is where the local pattern is to stop in a place and wait till space is opening up in front, and then change the size of ones dance, fill that open space with something huge, and then stop and dance small and stationary till the space opens up again. In my experience that leads to people starting to use open spaces in other lanes, too, and to zigzag whenever they see the opportunity to expand their dance to the size they actually want to dance at, and the ripples of that tend to be really far reaching. But then i want to be my tango to be a travelling dance, while there is a trend to view tango as a stationary dance where you periodically change the spot where you do your stationary figure. (i actually think i might be able to enjoy tango as a stationary dance, too, but again, the whole ronda would have to agree that this is what we are doing)
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#50
it is entirely possible to dance a giro/molinete without sending the follower against the line of dance, it only requires the leader to switch places with the follower
Quite. But it's not your place to force the couple in front of you to do that if there is more room to your back. It's the equivalent of breathing down someone's neck.

At least not unless you are cooperating with other couples to force a dancer with egregiously bad floorcraft off the floor ;-).
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#51
The rondas i like least is where the local pattern is to stop in a place and wait till space is opening up in front
I think that was mentioned in another thread, but it is definitely a ronda that exists -- and can work.

Festival rondas can be a chaotic affair mainly because there is no "house ronda" and different incompatible ronda styles are clashing.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#52
Just as a sidenote - it is entirely possible to dance a giro/molinete without sending the follower against the line of dance
Just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's necessarily desirable. The classic molinete (and the back step for that manner), have been in tango for a long time, and I see no reason to take it out. The couple behind can (and IMO, should) leave space for a molinete or a back step. If they don't, then you deal with it, but I think of the space ahead of me and behind me as shared space.

Obviously, I can better see what's in front of me, so I'm watching out for the couple in front of me, and leave enough space for a back step (or whatever). I hope the leader behind me does the same for me. Now when the leader wants to go three steps back, then it's a problem.
:wacky:
 
#53
And there is very little mixer going on: it is a barrio milonga.
I guess, I was right about checking the number of tables at a milonga place.
This place has too many tables.

I guess, a barrio milonga means "a snobby milonga for the locals only". A stranger should not go there, it'll be very difficult for him to invite anybody.
 
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sixela

Well-Known Member
#54
a snobby milonga for the locals only
So, you're calling the people who dance at Sunderland snobs? Sure, that's why they keep the basketball hoops installed. That adds to that sophisticated snob cachet.

Again, your life is full of imagined certainties. You see the world through your own alternative facts to fit your theories, but don't expect us to stand in awe.

By the way: barrio milongas are an institution upon themselves. They exist for their patrons; the world is not an oyster for your personal consumption, and if you want to experience a different culture, it might be interesting to adapt to it rather than to complain that it doesn't fit your tastes.
 
#55
There is a number of loners in a barrio milonga too, and it is possible to get partners and dance when you go alone, not with a group or in a couple. You just need to know how to behave, and see who you can invite. ;)
 
#56
Is not it what this thread is about? The reality at any milonga is such that no one can just get up and grab a partner of his/her first choice at any time he/she pleases. At very least, a person on the other side of our choice ought to be willing, too. That concent is not a 100% given, so, using vincenze's definition, any milonga potentially is a "snobbish milonga". :)
We are here trying to talk about how best to determine who is willing, and, possibly, how to increase their number. No?
 
#58
So, in my opinion, the milonga setup is supposed to facilitate that -- matching and connecting willing partners and filtering unwilling ones, not facilitate attempts of random grabbing.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#59
Quite. And that makes it harder for strangers to get dances, so you need to arm yourself with patience.

You're not entitled to get dances, but to earn them you have to get on the dance floor to show that you can indeed dance...so it is indeed a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. But huffing and puffing, displaying a sense of entitlement and being impatient is certainly not going to make it any better.

Wherever I go I usually do end up dancing, even when I expect that I might not (or at least not the first time I visit). But I don't count on dancing the first hour or so unless I already know someone who can introduce me.

Introducing yourself as a visitor to the organiser usually helps (except at places that have lots of visitors: BsAs, festivals, etc.), and I often make a point of sending organisers a mail if I can before I arrive. And when you do that, it's also better not to introduce yourself as if you were God's gift to their milonga entitled to dance with the best.
 
#60
Quite. And that makes it harder for strangers to get dances, so you need to arm yourself with patience.
In my familiar milongas, I like dancing with visitors/strangers, and I know I am not alone. :) And the organizers know who we are, and we know how to make ourselves known and available. It does require observation from a stranger's part, and therefore, I guess, some amount of patience, but not even a crucifying one. :) Just a little.
 

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