Has guaracha got a clave?

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#1
Had a discussion with friends, now I´m a little bit disturbed. So my question:
Has guaracha got calves, or a clave, or at least a syncopated rhythm? Thanks for advice in advance.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#5
Could it be possible that we talk of two different animals? I thought of Guaracha (the folklore format) and you meant Guaracha-Son? The first beiing without (european tradition) the latter with clave (eastern tradion).

As for Danzón. Danzón is a slow offshoot of the Habanera (which was called danza in Havana, as the hamburger simply was known as steak in my hometown Hamburg). The Danzon definitely got no clave !! It got the tresillo. Only the montuno section of the Danzón (which was a late development in the history of the Danzón) got the clave (eastern tradition). For me anyway.

The habanera-pattern
 
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tangotime

Well-Known Member
#6
Could it be possible that we talk of two different animals? I thought of Guaracha (the folklore format) and you meant Guaracha-Son? The first beiing without (european tradition) the latter with clave (eastern tradion).

As for Danzón. Danzón is a slow offshoot of the Habanera (which was called danza in Havana, as the hamburger simply was known as steak in my hometown Hamburg). The Danzon definitely got no clave !! It got the tresillo. Only the montuno section of the Danzón (which was a late development in the history of the Danzón) got the clave (eastern tradition). For me anyway.

The habanera-pattern


My references are invariably from the indigenous perspective ,as traditional dance formats .

Ive never given a 2nd thought to Danzon, with or without clave.Altho, I cant imagine that, not even an implied is there .

I have an extensive Cuban collection , and need to check what is present ( or not ) before I comment.
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#7
My references are invariably from the indigenous perspective ,as traditional dance formats . I have what I classify as modern day Guar. and traditional . As beneath, I need to check my musical sources .

Ive never given a 2nd thought to Danzon, with or without clave.Altho, I cant imagine that, not even an implied is there .

I have an extensive Cuban collection , and need to check what is present ( or not ) before I comment .
 
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opendoor

Well-Known Member
#8
...cant imagine that, not even an implied is there.
I did some research now. The guaracha got under the influence of black music (i.e. syncopated rhythms) not before the 30s. The guaracha stems from the canary island (the same with the guajira, I posted this before in this forum). In the 30s the guraracha was fused with black music: it got an underlying cinquillo rhythm (which is not a clave) and a montuno section at the end with a son clave. There has never been a musical connection to the danzón. Only the fusion patterns were similar (montuno adding).
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#9
There has never been a musical connection to the danzón. ).
but there is...

Antonio Arcano was a band leader in the 30s and he was the one who incorporated a Conga to the Danzon rhythm ,and from that inception, another musician,Aniceto Diaz then added a vocalist to the Danzon music ( which never had been included before ), also ,adding Clave and Maracas .
As to Guajira, thats a Son rhythm, and unless Cuba gave up the "rights " to that, then I guess anyone may lay claims, to all the musical styles that Cuba produced.The music today, has had so many changes ,and the waters have become very muddy

And, we must include PR to the mix, as the sharecroppers there ,were known as guajiros and the musics name surely must have been extrapolated to Guajira.

As to lyrics. the genre does draw heaviley on Spanish traditions . Also,as many may not know:altho the music is constant, there is often a change of lyrics, in the most recorder song, Guntanamera , telling a different story .

We are talking basic concepts, here.From Orq. Aragon to Fajardo Estrellas and several other contributors.

Roots are seldom crystal clear, as much of the info was never written down ,so hearsay and opinion, seem to play a large part, with obvious exceptions.

PS.. Cha cha is a good e.g. where there are several claimants to its name ( the dance and the titling of the genre )
 
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