Having a hard time counting music.

Joe

Well-Known Member
#21
Actually, I think it's one of those songs with a signature change (or changes). It does sound like 6/8 for most of it. But there's definitely a section at 3:08 that's 4/4. This is the full Secret Garden track, of course, not the snippet posted earlier.
 

Mengu

Well-Known Member
#22
Actually, I think it's one of those songs with a signature change (or changes). It does sound like 6/8 for most of it. But there's definitely a section at 3:08 that's 4/4. This is the full Secret Garden track, of course, not the snippet posted earlier.
Listening to the youtube version, I'm still hearing 6/8 through that section. If you are stuck on hearing a fast 4/4, try counting 12 34 12, 12 34 12, perhaps that will help you hear the 6/8. Sometimes there is emphasis on beats 56 which can confuse you to think they are 12. But then the other two beats are also strong. Signifying each pair as Strong or Weak, the phrases from 3:08 go something like:

SWW,WWS,SWW,WWS,SWS,SWS,SWS,SWW,WWW,...
 

cornutt

Well-Known Member
#23
I will add that a lot of us musicians have a tendency to keep time by moving our heads... that was a hard habit to break when I started dancing.
 

dlliba10

Well-Known Member
#24
Re: Lament for a Frozen Flower, I can't hear anything but a Viennese, mainly because of this showdance:


When I first heard it played as a waltz for a comp, I thought it was a mistake.
 

j_alexandra

Well-Known Member
#25
I recently got a ballroom CD, Ultimate Ballroom 20. I have trouble with track 25 Lament for a frozen flower - they have put it under waltz. While the tempo is waltz speed, I keep hearing 4 beats..... has anyone else had trouble with this one?
http://www.danceshopper.com/ballroo...-Ballroom-Album-20---Dreams-Are-More-Precious
Absolutely positively definitely a waltz, but not a banging-it-out one, more flowy and subtle. Also, tempo is a wee bit less strict than I usually hear in ballroom music; more rubato than the norm. Not a waltz for the faint of heart. I love it.
 

j_alexandra

Well-Known Member
#26
The advice you got to listen for a strong beat is a good one, as is the one about the drums, but I would take it one step further.

I am a trained music teacher and working with dancers I have discovered something interesting. For those trained in music, we have a tendency to automatically listen to the base line and disregard the melody--because that is how a lot of us are trained.

For those not trained in music, I have noticed they tend to focus on the melody or top line (such as the vocal or vocal line). This can be confusing because it is not as defined and rarely keeps a steady rhythm.

My advice is to focus on the base line. Try to ignore the melody and find the deepest instrument and focus on it. Chances are once you zero in on it you will find it easier to hear the beat. Drums are also helpful, but as pointed out can go off on different rhythms. 9 times out of 10 the bass line is the driver behind the rhythm and beat. When listening to different songs, focus on trying to find that bass line and sticking with it without letting yourself get distracted by the melody.
Can't like this enough. Mega like. Uber like. Like a LOT.
 
#27
I recently got a ballroom CD, Ultimate Ballroom 20. I have trouble with track 25 Lament for a frozen flower - they have put it under waltz. While the tempo is waltz speed, I keep hearing 4 beats..... has anyone else had trouble with this one?
http://www.danceshopper.com/ballroo...-Ballroom-Album-20---Dreams-Are-More-Precious
That song is a VW. But the tempo has to be reduced by about 15%.
Shouldn't have appeared in a ballroom CD, even in the twentieth ultimate ballroom CD.
 
#28
I have heard of a funny and very convincing exercise, which I have done myself. The exercise is done in a seated position.

Pick up a song - easy or difficult to count - and count all the measures (bars), excluding introduction and ending, if any. Then count again. Did you get the same number?

Use a paper and pencil and mark only the first beat (downbeat) in the measures. Don't group the marks, especially in groups of fives. Usually the number of measures in a song is a multiple of 3, 12 or 16.

If this appears difficult, then select a simple and short children's song and slow down the playback (many players allow slowing down of the playback). Avoid modified songs, mixes, and songs with high WPM (words per minute).
 
#29
Re: Lament for a Frozen Flower, I can't hear anything but a Viennese, mainly because of this showdance:


When I first heard it played as a waltz for a comp, I thought it was a mistake.
It's funny, the other day I played this video first and then couldn't hear anything but VW either. Today I listened to the music alone without watching the video and could count it as a waltz by focusing on counting 1&2&3&. I guess it's like one of those optical illusions, except for audio ;)

That song is a VW. But the tempo has to be reduced by about 15%.
Shouldn't have appeared in a ballroom CD, even in the twentieth ultimate ballroom CD.
It seems like the right tempo to me, around 84 bpm as waltz or 168 as VW. Maybe you're used to tempo for smooth? I know it's slower there but not sure how much. It definitely doesn't follow the tempo strictly though.
 
#30
Thanks everyone. I went from being clueless with musicality to now being able to dance on time to music.

On another note, it's been 4 months since I started ballroom dancing and only the past month was serious training for competition. I'm finally able to dance with confidence. It's been confusing and frustrating, but I am finally starting to see that I have a chance of winning the competition. I don't know what the other competitors will be like, but I'm giving it my best.

It's quite rewarding going through all that difficulty.
 

SwingingAlong

Well-Known Member
#31
That song is a VW. But the tempo has to be reduced by about 15%.
Shouldn't have appeared in a ballroom CD, even in the twentieth ultimate ballroom CD.
To me, it is 6/8. When I say I hear it as 4, I mean I hear it as 123, 223, 323, 423; with stronger accents on 1 and 3. I hope never to have to dance to it as a slow waltz in a competition! VW, or one of the VW tempo New Vogue dances like a swing waltz, absolutely!
 

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