Heel or ball ?

rain_dog

Active Member
#41
I have never heard a male teacher tell this to leaders, although I have heard them tell leaders the opposite... trace the floor with the inside of the ball just as followers do for most of their steps except the forward step in a stilletto. Of course, I'm not present for many private lessons that leaders get, so who knows what they get told.
This is what I've been taught, and as a leader I've found there's a very good practical reason for this. I'm often stepping next to the woman's foot, and if I land on the outside edge and roll inward, there's a good chance I'll catch the woman's shoe with the inside edge of mine.

It's far safer to go in by tracing the floor with my big toe, so any contact with the woman's foot will be with the soft upper part of my shoe and there's no danger of catching her shoe (or worse, her toes) with my sole.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#42
"The results of the present study indicate that Ia afferent input of most lower limb muscles is used in the online control of local joint displacement during human locomotion."
from
Effects of tendon vibration on the spatiotemporal characteristics of human locomotion

And there are papers on how the inner ear and sight contribute.
Here's a link on the ear and balance. http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=21685

I am told the big toe is a proprieceptive trigger for our balance.
Given the complexity of how balance works in walking or standing, even, I can see why this sort of thing gets passed around.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#43
"The results of the present study indicate that Ia afferent input of most lower limb muscles is used in the online control of local joint displacement during human locomotion."
from
Effects of tendon vibration on the spatiotemporal characteristics of human locomotion

And there are papers on how the inner ear and sight contribute.
Here's a link on the ear and balance. http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=21685



Given the complexity of how balance works in walking or standing, even, I can see why this sort of thing gets passed around.
are you saying it isnt correct...? Big toe I mean?
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#44
#45
Trying going listening and watching Puppy Costello and watch Orlando Paiva and his son Orlando Paiva, Jr. and watch Guillermo Merlo and Feranda Ghi for starters. They are great Argentina teachers. Then for great American teachers try Homer & Christina Ladas (San Francisco, California), Danny Trenner (Boston, Massachuetts), Randy Hansen (Miami, Florida), Marco & Ana (Chicago, Illinois) to name just a few.

Just for the record, I am not listed above and looking for business. I'm here solely to bring out the truth because of so many miconceptions about dancing. We have people today that are teaching dancing that aren't even certified by anyone. In fact, there is a dance instructor on TV performing, who only participated in dance classes for 2 years and now he is a pro??? No one on Earth can claim being a Pro with having taken Private Lessons.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#47
Puppy Costello, Orlando Paiva and his son Orlando Paiva, Jr, Guillermo Merlo and Feranda Ghi, Homer & Christina Ladas, Danny Trenner, Randy Hansen, Marco & Ana

I'm here solely to bring out the truth because of so many miconceptions about dancing.

We have people today that are teaching dancing that aren't even certified by anyone.
Are you saying that the American teachers you listed above were certified by someone? Or even the Argentines you list?

I have great respect for the people you list that I am familiar with, including Daniel Trenner, however, I know a couple of porteno tango dancers who think Daniel doesn't know squat about tango. So it's not like there's some sort of universal consensus for these things.

As for you bringing out the truth ... just be careful not to confuse stylistic preferences with absolute truths. You may have some valuable things to contribute to this forum, and I don't want to make you feel unwelcome.... But...
There are people here who have been dancing tango for quite some time (in some cases, decades) and your approach and attitude is just a wee bit... shall we say.. presumptuous? (as though we desperately need the truth brought out by someone who just got here, and have all been floundering in ignorance prior to your arrival) Perhaps there is simply a language issue in your wording?... :)

I hope you take some time to read through many of the past and current threads and add your thoughts. When you do, you will hopefully see that there is a wealth of knowledge here from posters who have made significant investments and commitment in learning and perfecting their tango over long periods of time (although not one of us would claim to be perfect yet). We look forward to you adding your contributions.

Welcome to the forum.
 

LadyLeader

Active Member
#48
My natural choice are the ball steps but that just reinforces my difficulties in tango walk; the bad look. When I started to experiment with heelsteps also some of the unpleasent looks were disapearing in same degree.

When making your personal choice between heel/toe take it based on video. Film your walk alone from back, front and side as well as with your partner. Then you can find the way looking best for you and your body. Right or wrong but you look great!
If you save your video you can also follow your growing in style!
 

LadyLeader

Active Member
#49
There is also a choice of steps when doing different tango things. I have seen Gustavo Naveira use heel steps for left foot and ball seps for right foot when walking in counter clockwise circle.

This is in line with Jans experience of the use of heel step for short step and ball step for long ones.
 

LadyLeader

Active Member
#53
I think this is for leaders? - I remember in a follower class one on the highest heels told us she is using heel turns when ball part of the foot is getting tired. (She was the teacher)
 

LadyLeader

Active Member
#55
specific situations...colgadas I seem to think...
I never heard anything about leader position in colgadas but I think it should be the same as for ladies: basic rule for follower was to stand on the ball of the foot in both cases - axis is moved backwards/forward.

I wonder what hapends when colgada goes sideways?
 

LadyLeader

Active Member
#56
All my teacher used to turn to the heel, too, depending on the direction of the movement.
Sorry Opendoor this seems to be my nit-picking day ....

But do you meen leaders and pivoting? or leaders and walking in a circle?

Or do you mean leader standing on the left foot pivoting to the left?
... or leader standing on the right foot and pivoting to the left?
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#57
Neither nor, and I fear anyone here in this forum understands something different by pivoting, too.

When doing forward planeos and enrosques I usually pivot on the ball. And I usually used to pivot on the ball too, when doing back-saccadas with my LF. My current teacher found that it would be much easier (a less degree of torsion and twisting backwards) to turn on the heel first. Anything that helps is desireable, so his words. What actually made me wonder, b.c in other respect he is as traditionalistic as could be. I knew the concept of hell turning from LA style salsa before.

Hope that helps
w.r. od
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#58
I have seen one very good dancer- but I have forgotten who now, do pivots on his heel..
A few years back, I was in a leaders class where the teacher said (among other things), about 10 to 20 percent of people pivot better on their heel than on the balls of your feet. If you're one of those people, then just do it that way, rather than trying to fight how your body works.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#59
...colgadas I seem to think
..basic rule for follower was to stand on the ball of the foot in both cases - axis is moved backwards/forward.
Heel pivoting by followers on high heels :confused: Cannot imagine. I Remember another case of heel pivots others than said above: I use to pivot on my heels in a single axis turn cw (= tiny colgada).

I wonder what hapends when colgada goes sideways?
Please stay on the whole foot. In the side-by-side leaning outside position the woman´s foot is fixed by the leaders foot. But in the crossed-foot position it may occur that the follower actually slips into your direction. But if you feel this case coming you should start to turn (or any other kind of salida), so you can cope with this situtation.
 

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