How dancing shapes you from a woman into a lady.

madmaximus

Well-Known Member
Kali Ma said:
Hi, all!
...I think that the word lady should connote the same perceived qualities that the word gentleman should–someone who places value on the well-being and comfort of those in their environment, who conducts him/herself with gracious intent, who is secure in his/her own strengths–and nothing else. The principles underlying the words –as I see them– should be gender neutral, even if the terms themselves are not...
Couldn't have said it better.


There is a profound difference between being a "Lady" and "Lady-like behaviour".

From reading this thread (and its parallel "...boys to men..."), there seems to be a very common misconception that being a Lady (or a Gentleman) is about
sublimating your personality to a stricture of passiveness and retirement,
or adopting an "air",
or leading a perfectly boring life,
or even being a timid mouse.
That is the FARTHEST thing about being a Lady (or a Gentleman for that matter).

Having manners,
being courteous,
knowing when to open the door for someone,
or knowing what fork to use at dinner,
these are simply measures of civility
that one should (and could reasonably) expect
of a person in civilized society.

These things DO NOT make one a lady or a gentleman.

These things simply demonstrate that one is well-mannered.




No.
Being a lady or a gentleman is a state of grace.
It is about character.
About being evolved socially--in terms of ethics, morals, and knowledge among other things.

It is about being true to yourself
and having that in harmony with society in general,
and with those around you in particular.




m
 
madmaximus said:
It is about being true to yourself
and having that in harmony with society in general,
and with those around you in particular.
What if the first conflicts with at least one of the second two? I would rather have respectful open discord and perhaps learn from it (perhaps the learning experience could be mutual?) than compromise in the name of harmony. Or is this not what you mean?
 

madmaximus

Well-Known Member
Peaches said:
...Is a gentleman allowed to deliberately execute poor floorcraft, thus running himself into another leader (never another follower), if said other leader has proven to be a shmuck?...
Of course NOT!!!

A gentleman may NEVER compromise his principles--so he is NOT ALLOWED to execute POOR floorcraft.

... Santa Maria!!! The very idea of it...!



He may only execute EXQUISITE floorcraft.

Now, if he were to, say... "accidentally" change the direction of a different couple
who MAY in turn, (ehem) just HAPPEN to RAM into Mr. Schmuck...?

Well, that's just competition... right ? :)




m
 

madmaximus

Well-Known Member
Novice said:
What if the first conflicts with at least one of the second two? I would rather have respectful open discord and perhaps learn from it (perhaps the learning experience could be mutual?) than compromise in the name of harmony. Or is this not what you mean?
Ahh, grasshopper, but you do know the answer already...

There's always two choices in life.
You do, or you don't.
If your character (or ethics, morals, knowledge) are in conflict with society then you may withdraw, or you may stay.
If you stay, you can choose to be in harmony with society, or you may not.

As you have a choice--so does society (or group, or family, or friends...)
It may compromise with you, or it may decide to push you away...

The real answer though is this...
What will distinguish one as a person of character and grace, is the MANNER in which harmony--or balance, is achieved.
And... well... respectful discord has always been a hallmark of a civilized society.



It is easy to tell someone to go to hell.

However,

It is the true lady (or gentleman) who can make them look forward to the trip.




m
 
madmaximus said:
No.
Being a lady or a gentleman is a state of grace.
It is about character.
About being evolved socially--in terms of ethics, morals, and knowledge among other things.

It is about being true to yourself
and having that in harmony with society in general,
and with those around you in particular.

m
Yes. To me it shouldn't matter who else sees you as what. Sure I can say this and this about my friends, but that doesn't make it true. Only they know what's true to them while what I say is just a pure fragment of the truth. I only say this, because it's how you feel about yourself and how you present yourself that turns you into a man or a lady not how I feel about you as a person. Again I can say that this man or this woman is a lady and a gentleman. Only they know that answer. It's how you feel about it towards yourself that matters. ;)
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
btw...i heard that it was only the irish that could tell you to go to hell so that you would look forward to the trip....

and alas, madmax, i finally disagree...should a true lady or gentleman tell someone to go to hell, publicly or privately-- as you note, what would distinguish them in my mind is not that way in which they said it but their ability to apologize for it...IMO
 
fascination said:
and alas, madmax, i finally disagree...should a true lady or gentleman tell someone to go to hell, publicly or privately-- as you note, what would distinguish them in my mind is not that way in which they said it but their ability to apologize for it...IMO
Does this mean that I have to talk to my x and apologize to him for telling him where to go seven months ago... oh and well... prior to that too of course lol? I guess this means I have to take away the thought of me being a lady then lol. But hey wait... I did not say that I was a lady then. So, I don't think this counts lol! :p
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
when I post "IMO"...I mean IMO, that is all..no one else need adopt my view ...nor do I expect it...but yes, in general, for ME...even when I am upset with someone and they may even (in my view) merit a rant....if I could have been more reasonable, then it is my practice to apologize ...and I respect people who feel likewise and have a bit less respect for those who don't...it has to do with my definition of decency which is tied I guess to civil/aka ladylike or gentleman like behavior, to me....it is not aimed at you or anyone else for that matter...like anyone else, my view is my view in abstract...and of course there is almost always a specific where one could argue the contrary..I don't care to...
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
I have been avoiding this thread because I find the word "lady" to be extremely loaded.

So, to be fair and reasonable, I went back and read the OP ... and then the rest of the thread. It sounds like the OP was talking about what another, older thread called being a "girlie-girl."

So, leaving all my feminist ranting aside. lol. I'll answer the question.

No, dancing hasn't made me start dressing any differently, other than the obvious change that my clothes are now comfortable for dancing. But I've been basically the same for years. No-frills, when it comes to makeup, with a tendency to dress up, pretty much all the time. That hasn't changed.

What has changed a lot is my awareness of my own body and what I'm doing with it or to it. Not sure that makes sense, since it really means a lot of things, from improved posture, to consciousness of projecting myself in a room, to increased ... sensuality (for want of a better word.) Not talking about sex, here. Just awareness of my senses. Pretty profound change, actually, and one I'm fairly sure would not be considered polite, in the old-fashioned application of the term "lady." lol.

That said, I do appreciate the view of those who said that the terms lady and gentleman reflect ones character and should be gender neutral. I agree to both those ideas. I don't think that the term "lady" is gender neutral -- too much history for that. But, in an ideal world, it would be. :cool:

Just my $0.02.
 
I'd say biggest thing for me is skirts and hair. I've always loved experimenting with make up so no major differences there....but yeah I used to never consider experimenting new skirts and new lengths and styles...now I'm all over the place, plus I've definetly slowed down on the whole jeans idea...not as much of a fan anymore.

I've also discovered a lot of the higher up dancers have very unique hair so recently I've been playing that up a bit too :-D
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
funny ...after my last dance party where I actually found a guy who could do standard...I have decided against most skirts because er...he couldn't get his knee btwn my thighs...don't EVEN go there you people
 
funnny ...after my last dance party where I actually found a guy who could do standard...I have decided against most skits because er...he couldn't get his knee btwn my thighs...don't EVEN go there you people

Now see to me since I'm young and single, and if the guy was cute... what the heck lol! ;)
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
exactly...I went to this party at the last minute and I never expected to be lucky enough that a standard guy would be there ...so, ahem....the skirt was a tight mini...and there was just no way the poor guy could get his leg in there...bummer
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
funny ...after my last dance party where I actually found a guy who could do standard...I have decided against most skirts because er...he couldn't get his knee btwn my thighs...don't EVEN go there you people
Yup...have had some issues with clothes for socials for that very reason. I've got the same problem with AT--some of my favorite things just don't work if I'm wearing a tight skirt.

I usually like to avoid the problem by wearing pants, but for some things (formals) it can be a real b*tch trying to find something that works. Not to mention, where I dance milonga has started a "cocktail" dress code--how the hell I'm supposed to find something cocktail-ish which is still AT dance-able is beyond me.
 
Yup...have had some issues with clothes for socials for that very reason. I've got the same problem with AT--some of my favorite things just don't work if I'm wearing a tight skirt.

I usually like to avoid the problem by wearing pants, but for some things (formals) it can be a real b*tch trying to find something that works. Not to mention, where I dance milonga has started a "cocktail" dress code--how the hell I'm supposed to find something cocktail-ish which is still AT dance-able is beyond me.
That's very true! I've learned to buy formals now with slits on the sides of them just in case. They are pretty etc., and actually danceable. ;)
 

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