How do you answer this question?

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#21
What I am hearing here is that I don't owe anyone to dance with them just like others to have to dance with me.
As long as I am civil I can just smile and walk away.
Bingo.
You need to protect yourself from other emotional leechers or self-entitled personas and any form of negative energy.
You came to serve the community not some individuals that shouldn't have access at all.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#23
So what if he is an organizer. Does he need to accept bullying from someone?
You have two ways of looking at the situation. 1) Social: Nobody owes anybody a tanda 2) Business: You want to keep the customers happy so they return.
Tango maniac's post covered why I considered it a grey zone.

Not that he is obliged to dance, but that it might in his best interests to at least find a polite and non-confrontational response. It might encourage bad behavior from others to dance with her... or not.. he knows his group better than we do.

The one thing we don't know is the tone her words took... Was she demanding and strident or sorta half-joking? Was she entitled or was she genuinely perplexed about why he didn't ask, but was simply a bull in a china shop about getting an answer (that probably every one of us has wanted at some point)?

Is she a bully or just socially inept? Did she mean to shame him in front of others or was she oblivious to how others might perceive the interaction or how he would feel during it?

Her way of approaching it was wrong, and I'm not defending her at all. But as an organizer and not just an attendee, he MAY want to consider possibilities beyond "She's an entitled, bullying brat who can quit if she wants... I couldn't care less"

Also... he asked for possible responses, and my guess is that he's a decent guy for whom "Get lost, b&*#" isn't really the kind of route he wants to go. Otherwise he would probably have just said something like that. ;)

I'm assuming he wants a courteous, professional, but clear, way to handle it.
 
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Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#24
I'm assuming he wants a courteous, professional, but clear, way to handle it.
It is nice to be an optimist, I'd rather be a realist.
I had some really bad experience at milongas so ...

I am pretty sure he noticed her before and only he knows why he has danced with her so far.

It is impossible to have a cookie and have it too.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#25
It is nice to be an optimist, I'd rather be a realist.
I had some really bad experience at milongas so ...
I am pretty sure he noticed her before and only he knows why he has danced with her so far.
It is impossible to have a cookie and have it too.
Well his reasons for not dancing with her before this incident are mostly irrelevant to my point, which was more about how to handle this situation and others like it, IF he wants to walk the line between dance participant and organizer. I never said he has to dance with her.

I think probably most organizers and teachers have been in a situation where someone asks or expects them to dance based on their "role" in the tango community or to the particular individual. A discussion about how to deal with that sort of thing when you definitely don't want to dance socially with the person, but also don't want to reply the way you might at an event where you are just a participant... I think it's a good topic for this forum
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#27
I think probably most organizers and teachers have been in a situation where someone asks or expects them to dance based on their "role" in the tango community or to the particular individual. A discussion about how to deal with that sort of thing when you definitely don't want to dance socially with the person, but also don't want to reply the way you might at an event where you are just a participant... I think it's a good topic for this forum
I completely agree with you.

I went to some workshops on assertive communication and I remember one important thing.
That we need to strive to be assertive as often as possible but aggressive communication is also allowed.
Some people try to be people pleasers too much and because of love for their hobbies or they have internal needs, motivation may be of various sources.
 

LadyLeader

Active Member
#28
It could also be good to create situations where this kind of questions don't come up. By dancing only with specific followers at a practica I have communicated that those may ask me. Today I seldom get this kind of invitations from others.

A fun memory is when I accepted an invitation from a local male leader to follow him. After that tanda all the leaders - many of them anyhow :) - were after me for the next tanda. I learned to keep my principles to keep the peace.

I would suggest that you communicate your dance circle by dancing only with a few followers and every now and then you go around and talk friendly with all your other guests.

One of the female organizers had a milonguero for the night with a label on the chest. This leader had free entrance for the whole night and the duty time was one hour. There was usually 2-3 of them covering same number of hours. All the ladies who wanted could go and ask for a tanda and he was inviting those who were sitting a lot. This could channel the follower frustration to something good and keep back the questions even to the other leaders at your event.
 
#29
I went to some workshops on assertive communication and I remember one important thing.
That we need to strive to be assertive as often as possible but aggressive communication is also allowed.
This entire thread was over the woman's aggressive communication in wanting to know why the OP didn't ask her to dance. (At least I think it was aggressive.) Why is aggressive communication allowed?

It's possible Mladenac and I don't have the same definition of aggressive communication. IMHO, assertive and aggressive don't mean the same thing.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#30
Obviously I was not prepared for this, and felt kind of ambushed. Then I thought how should I have responded and in general how to deal with this kind of attitude.
Any thoughts?
So here is a lady who takes the liberty to provoke me, or reprimand me in from of some other members of our community. I had other situation where I was asked a similar question, but in private and with a gentle tone. That one irritated me, so I though I'll turn to this community for some thoughts and input.
Maybe you could have some counter questions in such situations.

There are reasons why someone dances or doesn't dance with us.
So you may have a stream the conversion so the person concludes the reasons.
Or that for things you may want to discuss in private environment,
so you would have more time plan conversation.

There is a lot of self-reflection in tango.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#31
This entire thread was over the woman's aggressive communication in wanting to know why the OP didn't ask her to dance. (At least I think it was aggressive.) Why is aggressive communication allowed?

It's possible Mladenac and I don't have the same definition of aggressive communication.
The OP clearly stated that he felt ambushed and I would feel ambushed in that kind of situation.
It was aggressive and manipulative behaviour.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#32
It's possible Mladenac and I don't have the same definition of aggressive communication. IMHO, assertive and aggressive don't mean the same thing.
We have the same definition, I was referring how to reply to aggressive behaviour and communication.
So we don't need to be 100% time polite and assertive.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#33
At tango I learned that from any unpleasant situation you may leave without words and you may add thank you and it would be considered as a polite gesture.
 
#34
There are ladies who are never asked to dance.
They either leave or get extremely pushy.

There is a tiny lady here who dances as if she has never taken a class even though she has been around for years. She approaches every man and almost always get dances. I always reject her.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#36
. . .
The lady in question is a beginner and a very slow learner.
. . .
So here is a lady who takes the liberty to provoke me, or reprimand me in from of some other members of our community.
. . .
I actually don't have a real problem with a woman asking the question, (although if she does, she needs to be able to handle the truth). Normally, I'd try to diplomatically answer the question, or if I couldn't, I'd just say, I don't know (which actually could be true). Sometimes we simply get set in patterns, and can't even remember how they started.

However, in this case, it appears the woman is a bad dancer who somehow has a sense of entitlement, and apparently reprimanded you as well. She doesn't sound very nice, and it doesn't sound like you will want to dance with her anytime soon. I'd say that telling her the truth directly, (but not rude), would seem to be an acceptable response.
 
#37
I think probably most organizers and teachers have been in a situation where someone asks or expects them to dance based on their "role" in the tango community or to the particular individual. A discussion about how to deal with that sort of thing when you definitely don't want to dance socially with the person, but also don't want to reply the way you might at an event where you are just a participant... I think it's a good topic for this forum
I didn't expect to dance with organizers or teachers (here usually the same persons) when I started dancing Tango.But today I would think a host should try to dance with every regular at least once in the beginning.
By no way a means against general or individual shortage of dance partners, but a sign of recognizing erveryone and to be ready for an influence when necessary.
 
#38
However, in this case, it appears the woman is a bad dancer who somehow has a sense of entitlement, and apparently reprimanded you as well. She doesn't sound very nice, and it doesn't sound like you will want to dance with her anytime soon. I'd say that telling her the truth directly, (but not rude), would seem to be an acceptable response.
Yes, but we can assume that - with this personal prerequisites - she had no real chance to participate in the milonga since a year. So it might be that her "nasty attitude permeates the milonga like cigarette smoke", but we should recognize that it doesn't make things worse for her.
 
#39
I
However, in this case, it appears the woman is a bad dancer who somehow has a sense of entitlement, and apparently reprimanded you as well. She doesn't sound very nice, and it doesn't sound like you will want to dance with her anytime soon. I'd say that telling her the truth directly, (but not rude), would seem to be an acceptable response.
This happens rarely to me but when it does, I say "Our dancing styles are incompatible." If that doesn't work, I say "I have arthritis and my orthopedic surgeon said not to dance with women who push on my arm stressing my shoulder." I don't care if the woman says she isn't pushing. If my shoulder says she's pushing, she is pushing. I listen to my shoulder even if she can't hear what my shoulder is saying.
 

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