How long to wait before asking follower again?

#1
So I danced with a follower at a milonga and it went terribly; mostly my fault since I was not giving nearly enough body lead and too much arm movement (I know this is a weakness of mine and have to work on this constantly). So after one dance she said (nicely) that she simply couldn't follow what I was doing, and I asked her for a bit of helpful feedback which she gave me. So how long should I wait to ask her again? I obviously didn't ask that night, but I'm wary of even asking again for the next couple of times i see her.

Followers seem to remember "bad" dances forever, it seems. I danced with someone who (before our first dance) told me that when I danced with her the last time (and I found out this was 3-4 years back at a practica) that I had stepped on her foot, and if I did it again this time she'd have to stop. I didn't, but it made me extremely nervous for the whole tanda.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#5
To be quite honest about it, now you are labelled as a weak leader. But everyone started this way. So in the end it isn't important. Leading isn't everything in tango. Don't start ignoring her, start a conversation, instead. Some women like to talk to entertaining men. Some prefer a good perfume. Simply try to integrate into your lokal community and your second chance will come.
 

LadyLeader

Active Member
#6
I am a slow learner but i am working much more then the most other leaders and that takes me slowly forward.
We had in our community a mail leader who was hopeless at the beginning, some members thought that he would never get better but he did! One of my follower friends said how happy she was about following him during those quite bad early tandas because he became a good leader and he remembers who helped him there!
 
#7
To be quite honest about it, now you are labelled as a weak leader. But everyone started this way. So in the end it isn't important. Leading isn't everything in tango. Don't start ignoring her, start a conversation, instead. Some women like to talk to entertaining men. Some prefer a good perfume. Simply try to integrate into your lokal community and your second chance will come.
All good advice, BUT, don't strike up a conversation with the sole 'objective' of soliciting a dance at the end of it. It's very irritating when dancers (followers and leaders) do that to their target/victim. If the person you want to dance with gets a sense you're being less than sincere and pick up on your ulterior motives i.e. as opposed to simply being friendly, approachable and chatty, don't be surprised if your bridge is badly burnt as far as getting a dance with that person any time soon is concerned.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#8
Do you ever attend the same practica? If you find yourself at a practica with her, it would be ok to talk to her and say "You gave me some excellent feedback at a milonga (fill in the blank with a time frame or date reference) ago. I've been working on it, and if you ever have a chance at some point, I'd love your view on whether I've made any progress on (fill in the blank with whateve the issue was)"

And then drop it. Don't expect her to dance with you right then or even that night. Remain friendly with her when you see her. She knows you want to dance with her again. She probably knows even if you don't say this, but I'm a fan of letting someone know that you remember specific tips they gave you and that you actually took them to heart and have been trying to implement them. If you want to take the pressure off even more, tell her this at a time when you (or both of you) are clearly not prepared to dance, such as when you are putting your shoes on at the end of the night.

Of course, if you are verbally asking her to dance at milongas, stop that. If you use your cabeceo, you'll know when it's ok to ask her at a milonga, because you'll get her mirada. If you can't catch her eye, it's not ok (yet) to ask her. Simple!

I see in your profile that you are in DC. The first time I danced in DC, a leader I knew gave me one piece of advice: "Don't dance with anyone who asks you verbally. All of the good leaders here use cabeceo" He was right. I got desperate at Freedom Plaza because cabeceo was just too hard for me given the layout and the available light, and started accepting verbal invitations. They were consistently the worst dances I had all week in DC.
 
#9
Do you want additional humiliation?

Some people just don't want to dance with each other. Sometimes, they have to invent reasons for doing so.

You invite a lady. She expresses her dissatisfaction with words or her cold face. That's it. You'll forget her in no time.
 
#10
So I danced with a follower at a milonga and it went terribly; mostly my fault since I was not giving nearly enough body lead and too much arm movement (I know this is a weakness of mine and have to work on this constantly). So after one dance she said (nicely) that she simply couldn't follow what I was doing, and I asked her for a bit of helpful feedback which she gave me. So how long should I wait to ask her again? I obviously didn't ask that night, but I'm wary of even asking again for the next couple of times i see her.

Followers seem to remember "bad" dances forever, it seems. I danced with someone who (before our first dance) told me that when I danced with her the last time (and I found out this was 3-4 years back at a practica) that I had stepped on her foot, and if I did it again this time she'd have to stop. I didn't, but it made me extremely nervous for the whole tanda.
There is a difference between bad dancer and an inexperienced dancer. A smart lady would know the difference - she will avoid the bad one and encourage the inexperienced one.
If the comment was solicited by you, that may be a good sign, because she didn't point her finger at you, but rather stated her difficulty in following.
I would try to develop some sort of social interaction, as that lady one day, when you are more experienced, may be happy to dance with you.
The lenght of time to wait is not the key. It's how you handle the time in between.
 
#11
So I danced with a follower at a milonga and it went terribly; mostly my fault since I was not giving nearly enough body lead and too much arm movement (I know this is a weakness of mine and have to work on this constantly).

Followers seem to remember "bad" dances forever, it seems. I danced with someone who (before our first dance) told me that when I danced with her the last time (and I found out this was 3-4 years back at a practica) that I had stepped on her foot, and if I did it again this time she'd have to stop. I didn't, but it made me extremely nervous for the whole tanda.
Open Door pointed out to the list you live in our nation's capital. Since I lived there for 38 years and took all my privates there, I know what you're going through.

Open Door wrote you're labeled a weak leader. It's my experience that very few women in Washington are forgiving because the dance is very competitive, i.e. who can do the most elaborate figures. Once you are "tagged," there's NOTHING you can do to change the woman's impression. The best advice is to move on.

You wrote you know what you did wrong. That puts you ahead of a lot of men who don't have a clue. Work on your known weaknesses.

Consider visiting other cities where you are a blank slate and nobody has an impression about you.

I also found that most of the community prefers open position to close embrace. You didn't indicate your preference.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#12
Maybe more important is to solve your weakness; the major one.
Since you are not leading with your body, you are leading with your hand(s).

When you solve that approach her at the practica.
I didn't notice so bad energy at her side and she acted politely in the situation.

And try to practice awareness of your lead and how followers respond to your lead.
Once you improve that you will correct yourself and it will be a tremendous leap in your social dancing capabilities.
 
#13
I rarely have an issue with at least talking to anyone, but I am very confident with my conversational skills (and there was a time when I was not!). I consider there to be two different issue here:
1. Dancing with the person
2. Talking with the person
Now if I can't talk to them, I probably will not dance with them. If I can talk with them, maybe I won't be the first to suggest that we dance together, but I might bring how I am working to improve my skills, especially so that I will be more desirable to dance with.

Now, these things do take time, and we all have to go through a period of improvement to reach new heights, so best wishes, and I hope that you will be confident in your ability to improve, even if you are not yet comfortable in your dancing. :)
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#14
I also found that most of the community prefers open position to close embrace..
Interesting. When I have gone to DC, almost everyone dances Close Embrace, although there are some who dance in a barely connected, very upright, close embrace or a pronounced V-embrace.

I don't remember seeing hardly anyone dancing open at the milongas and practicas I attended (or doing showy moves), but maybe I was ignoring them as I looked for leaders I wanted to dance with. I've gone to at least 6 different places in DC and it was pretty much the same at all of them.

But yes, it's a tough crowd for both leaders and followers to break into.
 

tangobro

Active Member
#16
So I danced with a follower at a milonga and it went terribly; mostly my fault since I was not giving nearly enough body lead and too much arm movement (I know this is a weakness of mine and have to work on this constantly). So after one dance she said (nicely) that she simply couldn't follow what I was doing, and I asked her for a bit of helpful feedback which she gave me. So how long should I wait to ask her again? I obviously didn't ask that night, but I'm wary of even asking again for the next couple of times i see her.

Followers seem to remember "bad" dances forever, it seems. I danced with someone who (before our first dance) told me that when I danced with her the last time (and I found out this was 3-4 years back at a practica) that I had stepped on her foot, and if I did it again this time she'd have to stop. I didn't, but it made me extremely nervous for the whole tanda.
Invite her the next time she gives you mirada.

I use cabeceo to invite, which means that only the women who use mirada to signal that they want to dance with me are among those that I will invite. When I've visited your area to dance (Washington DC & Baltimore) mirada/cabeceo worked.
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
#17
How long to wait before asking follower again? .
When I was a beginner, my follower would accept one dance with me per month, so that she could evaluate and criticize my improvements (or lack of). I'd say, wait enough time to let her hope that in the meantime you became better.
 

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